OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions on Greenfield Ride On Mower Frames Greenfield MkII Evolution Ride-on - Wiring

Hi,

I have an old Greenfield Ride on mower that has never been started with a key, it's always been stared using the pull rope, very tiring after awhile.

I would like to get this machine to start as it should, that is, with use of key and ignition wires to the starter motor.


It has been used by other people in the past and looks like some idiot never wired it properly, the safety switch wire that goes to the back seat has disappeared long time ago.

Can anyone show / let me know which wire goes to where? I had a look at the diagram but I cant read diagrams that well. I'm 56.

Battery is fully charged, checked with battery charger, need to know what colour wire goes to where.

Also the original Briggs and Stratton Motor that was original has been swapped / changed with a Honda motor.

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers, Bondy

Just need help in sorting out the wiring, if anyone on this forum can assist.

Was about to post a few pics on here but no can do as there is no add picture icon
Thanks

Hello bondy99

Yes, pictures will help members.

For information on how to add pictures click HERE.

Hope this helps.
-------------------------
Jack

These photos relate to the Greenfield Ride on Mower. I did try to make the pics clear but could not get the right angle to show the entire electrical wiring . i.e. from the key switch, through to some other block connector then to the starter on the mower.

Hope these pics are helpful

Thanks for the help in showing me hoe to load these pics.

Cheers, Bondy99

Hello Bondy,
The previous owner may have just missed something.

I have never worked on Greenfield wiring, but the principles should be similar.

If you have a seat switch, you must be sitting on the seat, to allow the engine to start.

If this wire is missing (blue wire), then 12 volts wont be applied to the coil of your start solenoid (white wire in your 3rd image), when you turn the ignition switch to the start position.

You can bridge out your seat switch, but it is a safety issue, as the engine wont cut out if you come of the seat for what ever reason.

The first test I would do, is to see if 12v is being applied to the coil of your start solenoid when the key is turned to the start position. (white wire)
You will need a dc volt meter or a 12v test lamp to do this.

If the result is zero volts, then you will have to fault find the seat switch wiring.
The aim is to ensure the wiring is continuous through the seat switch and then to the start coil
terminal.

Another test you can do to see if the starter motor is working, is to directly connect a 12v test lead to the solenoid start terminal.
To prevent any short circuit, connect a wire to the solenoid start terminal first, then touch it to the positive terminal of your battery.

G'day Bondy and Mark,

Sure looks like a bit of a rats nest. The first thing I noticed is that there are two solenoids and you only need one. In the original engine setup the one mounted to the frame was used and then the Honda was fitted that has its own next to the starter. I'd be using the new one on the engine.
There also looks to be a good few cut wires and joins.
Can I suggest you draw a mud map of all the wiring and how it connects and colours so we can see what you've got. It's a crummy job but it's maybe the best way of knowing what you've got.
It may end up that the best thing to do is just rewire the thing from scratch.....but let's not get carried away just yet

Also, a question for Mark. I may learn something here. I thought/ assumed that the seat switch/blue wire is a magneto kill, not a starter control.

Hello prd,
Nice pick up on the 2nd solenoid, didn't know Honda did that.
Yes, seat unoccupied should kill spark.

Regarding most ride ons, safety switches, in general, don't they want you to be sitting in the seat, blades disengaged, foot on the brake before power can be applied to the coil to start the engine?

Would like to hear of others experiences.

I did at one stage draw out how the safeties are all interconnected with the magneto and solenoid.
If I find it I will upload it.

I understand that each ride on, brand or model will vary from one to the other.

This is an example of an MTD from memory.

Cheers Mark,

If you manage to hurt yourself after that amount of thought has gone into the safety system then you shouldn't be operating machinery.

Can we assume from the wiring diagramme from Greenfield and what I assume is a photo of the back of the ignition switch (Bondy, is that the back of the ignition switch in one of the photos?) that this beastie has a simple magneto kill arrangement?

Apologies Bondy for seemingly steering this topic off course but it is related to your problem.

Hi Mark and prd,

I've read through all the responses and advice, I'm overwhelmed at this point in time, I too did not realise there was two solenoids, I thought there was only one.

You are correct wiring is dodgey. There was a wire running from the rear seat with some type of safety switch (it was removed). I don't know why it was removed, I am aware the elderly bloke was not safety conscious , and the fella that used it in the past was bit of "she'll be right" type of bloke.

The ignition switch (Key Switch in Greenfield Diagram) in one of the photos has a white wire, red wire and what looks like a blue wire going to it. Definitely has no engine hour meter or any other meter fitted.

Hmmm, as this mower has not been able to start with the ignition switch, it can't be killed with the ignition key either.

To stop the engine, after being set to idle at low revs for a few seconds, I undo the clps to flip the engine cover over, closed the fuel line to Off position, place cover back over engine and let the engine starve for fuel. Engine cuts off after awhile.

Since there are two Solenoids, which solenoid should be used? Wires going to two solenoids sounds silly to me.

Here's the photo of the Honda Motor specs. I don't have the wiring guide or any other details about this engine

Cheers, Bondy99

Thanks Bondy your response helps alot.

I stripped back the wiring to its bare bones, so you are looking at less.



G'day prd, does this look OK to you? Its what I think it should be. You can add in the saftey switch later. Try to get it working first.

So, The heavy red wires are switched closed by the solenoid, when the ignition switch is turned to start. At ignition switch red wire is switched to yellow wire (white on your machine).

When ignition switch is turned to stop, the blue wires are switched together, this is earthing out the magneto, stopping spark.

Can you test to see if you have 12v at the ignition switch. 2nd image, brown looking wire.
If not is their a blown fuse in that wire. Is there power on any of the other wires?

Remove any unnecessary wiring, it just adds to the confusion.

Morning Bondy,

It's always darkest before the dawn. Between us all we'll get this one sorted for you.

I'm not surprised the seat switch has been disarmed and that the magneto kill was not put through the ignition switch.

There are two seperate circuits that have been butchered. One is the start control and power, the other is the magneto cut-off. The magneto cut-off is nice and simple with an earth being provided to turn the ignition off. The replacement engine should have a standard arrangement where the magneto is grounded when the throttle lever is pushed to the max slow position. If this isn't how it's working then perhaps the lever is being stopped by the cable or the lever slot before it gets to the cut off point. This is something you can check out seperate to the wiring issues.

Ultimately we can look at putting the magneto kill through the ignition switch for convenience and sort out the seat switch but for now if you can get it to cut off with the throttle lever with an adjustment then we can concentrate on the start system first.

I'll take some photos and draw you a mud map of what the start system needs to look like. It might seem a bit overwhelming but it's not that complicated. In the meantime if you can draw a mud map of what you have including wire colour, dead ends, etc it could be a tremendous help.

Whoops,

Sorry Mark, I didn't see that you'd already replied before I hit send.

That's nice and clear. Excellent work.

That sketch shows the original solenoid. You can use it Bondy if it makes things easier for you. I like the idea of using the nice shiny new one

No matter which one you use, the wiring hook up is the same.



The only thing we haven't talked about is the charge (alternator) hook up. I'd say don't worry about that right now. Concentrate on the start. The alternator is only one more wire but we can deal with it after the beastie starts!

Thanks mark electric,

I'm impressed with the simple wiring, does take the confusion out of it. I have not tested the wires as yet, will check the wire using voltmeter tomorrow. I don't think there is a fuse but will go over the wires to see if there is a fuse.

Cheers, Bondy

G'day prd,

Thanks for your input. It's a mongrel to start, choke cable has been adjusted and tightened.

At this point in time, the air filter needs to come off, a rag placed over the filters' hole, turn fuel [Censored] to open, pull the rope to rotate motor, engine starts, take cloth away from air filer hole, refit air filter box , increase revs, wait a bit then use pedal to move mower forward or reverse.

I'll try to draw a mud map as to what I see on the mower, need a day or two and I'll have it up here.

Cheers, Bondy

No worries prd and mark electric,

The drawing made by Mark electric is good and clear, I'll rewire the mower to replicate it.

Will start on the wiring some time during the next day or two. Hopefully wont be too hot a day.

Cheers, Bondy

Morning Bondy and Mark,

Bondy, It sounds like the choke isn't closing on start. Sounds to me like you aren't getting full travel with the throttle lever/cable. This accounting for both the starting and stopping problems. I had the exact same problem when I fitted a Honda to my Greenie a couple years ago- starting was difficult. I took the air cleaner assembly off to physically sight the choke to see what was happening. It only closes at the very, very end of the lever travel. In my case the cable travel and lever slot cut into the panel were the limiting things. If I adjusted it a poofteenth too far, it wouldn't cut off in the stop position (not hitting the magneto kill contacts). A poofteenth the other way and I had no choke. My guess is you have neither.

To prove the fault I disconnected the cable at the engine and tried starting and stopping it with the lever on the engine.

They tell us it will be cooler after today

Hello prd and Mark electric,

Sounds like what it is. First things first.

I disconnected the original wires going to the original greenfield solenoid. I have enclosed pic of original Greenfield Solenoid.

I disconnected the wiring plug that went to the key (Ignition) switch.

See pic of key switch with 5 spade terminals and disconnected wire plug. Key switch is a bit dirty looking.

I notice there is some wire missing from the battery end of the cables, I assume the missing cable is related to the seat switch. I could not say if the actual seat switch is still under the seat or has been removed. Will check tomorrow.

I connected the positive (Red) cable from the battery directly to the solenoid on the Honda.

I have left all other wires disconnected at this stage.

See further pics

There seemed to be a lot of wires going to the original solenoid and quite a few wires coming from the switch.

Mark Electric...with reference to the less wires drawing you provided. Am I safe to assume that's the solenoid on the Honda motor or is that the solenoid on the frame of the Greenfield Mower?

I've seen a few red wires on that Greenfield.

I need to know where that small red wire that goes to the solenoid actually comes from. As there should only be one solenoid and not two, I've removed the original Greenfield located on the frame within the engine bay.

I'll only use the solenoid that's connected near the starter on the Honda Motor.

Here are the pics...It was a humid and sweaty day.

Hello Bondy,
First, I never assume that a solenoid or the ignition switch is serviceable, especially on a machine that is not starting.

Yes use the Honda solenoid. Just means you may have to extend some wiring.

Watch a utube video on how to test an ignition switch, using the continuity/bell setting on your multimeter.
If you clean the back of the ignition switch you may see some letters that will help.

M - magneto
S - Solenoid
L - lights
G - Ground / Earth
B - Battery

The small red wire feeds 12v from the solenoid to the ignition switch terminal (B - Battery).
It originates from one of the main terminals on top of the solenoid, must be the battery side terminal.

NOTE: In my wiring diagram, the main battery earth does not have to run from the battery to the engine, it can be connected to a good chassis earth near the battery.

Also watch a video on how to test a solenoid, it will help you understand and make your wiring job easier.
cheers

Changed diagram to better match Honda solenoid.



Honda solenoid start coil wires (black and black with white stripe) The black and white wire will connect to earth. The black wire will go to ignition switch (S - solenoid).

Hello Mark Electric,

No worries, There should be enough length of wire to do the job. I do have couple of small rolls of wire if required. Have some terminal connectors.

I should be able to use the existing earthed wire as is. No probs, I'll be looking at a few things via youtube.

Thanks for the updated Honda diagram.

Cheers, Bondy

G'day Bondy and Mark,

Mark, have a look at Bondy's close up photo of the Honda solenoid. I think it's stuffed. The can has been knocked and is loose?

I really am going to have to start using my eyes, thanks prd.
Might have to go for plan B, :-)

G'day Mark and prd,

Well, you could be right , that solenoid on the Honda mower is bit loose and does move slightly, I had to hold onto the top of the solenoid to stop it from spinning when I undone the nut holding the battery cable.

Anyway, I've placed the red battery cable back on the Honda solenoid.

Those letters on the Ignition switch was hard to find, the buggers were stamped on the other side of the spade terminals. I had to use good light and angle reflection to see them. I've marked the letters on the spade terminals facing outwards for easier identification.

I'm not keen in buying a Honda Solenoid to replace the other as it looks like a pain to remove it from the motor.

I noticed a black wire from the Honda Solenoid, could be attached to a white coloured wire going to the ignition switch harness. The Black wire with white stripe coming from the Honda solenoid is earthed near the solenoid.

I have tested the ignition switch without wires, it's good to use.

I've attached additional pics.

I have no idea about those other wires that are located near the oil filler pipe.

There are some wires going to what looks like to be the solenoid and the rest was just zipped tied.

There is a red wire with what looks like a fuse holder (no fuse), other wire that would connect with that one has either disappeared or been canabalised for something else.

There is another black or brown wire with a female bullet terminal covered with dust.

Cheers, Bondy

G'day Bondy and Mark,

That bunch of wires next to the filler? There should be two wires in that bundle. One is the alternator output wire and one may be a magneto kill- I'd have to check. The one with the fuse is the alternator wire the previous owner had going to the battery for charge.

You also show a fuzzy photo of a green wire and a red wire. If they are coming out of a little one inch square black cube (which I guess is the rectifier) then the red one is the alternator output I think, and should be the same wire with the fuse holder on it.

Not sure what you mean by a wire from this bundle going to the solenoid.

Given that the Honda solenoid is stuffed, I'd be putting the old greenfield solenoid back on and using it. That's what Mark meant by plan B I apologise for mucking you around on this one. The suggestion to use the Honda one was based on the assumption it was shiny and new.

Mark, do those switch numbers mean anything to you?

Yes prd,
Ignition switch:
M - magneto
S - Solenoid
L - lights
G - Ground / Earth
B - Battery

#So connect magneto kill wire to M - magneto

#Connect battery supply 12v to B - Battery (supply will come from a main terminal on top of the solenoid, battery supply side.) Should be a fuse protecting this cable.

#Connect an earth wire to G - Ground / Earth ( wire normally comes from under the base of the solenoid)

# connect a wire from S - Solenoid (this wire is run to the coil terminal on the solenoid) so, when you turn the key to start (spring loaded) 12v is then applied to the coil. The coil becomes an electromagnet and closes the main contacts, which then gives the starter motor a 12v supply.

The intent is to get the engine to start and stop from the ignition switch, then I would focus on the other circuits one at a time.

Hope this helps.

Good morning PRD and Mark Electric,

Thanks for providing me with assistance, it's all a learning curve for me.
Bit of shame the Honda solenoid is buggered, oh well its back to using the original Greenfield Solenoid.

PRD, yes the fuzzy photo with the wires are from that rectifier. No probs, if it was new and not dodgey I'd be using it.

I'll have to see if there are any markings on that solenoid so I don't get the wiring mixed up.

There are no fuses protecting any cable, I think the previous owner must have been a red neck and rough at that. What fuse rating would be required, I'll wire one up.

Which Magneto Kill wire are we talking about, is it the one coming from the Honda Mower?

Unfortunately my mind is not as sharp as it used to be, don't suppose you have a diagram of a Greenfield Solenoid as to where these wires go to?

Battery has never been charged, its reading 4.25volts.

I placed a battery charger n it few times, each time the charger says battery fully charged. Multimeter tells me different.

I'll be back later after I look at the mower again.

Cheers, Bondy

Hello Mark Electric and prd,

Hmmmm, Hope I'm not loosing my marbles anyway.

I've cleaned up the original Greenfield Solenoid, good job I kept the photo with the original wires going to it, but that would change now as some of those wires were also going to the Honda Solenoid which we now know is stuffed, not sure about power wise, I have never tested the Honda solenoid to see if it still gets power.

With reference to the Honda Solenoid, I managed to remove a rubber cap that was covering one of the terminals. I traced the wire on that terminal it comes straight from the Starter Motor.

It appears the Honda Solenoid is held in place by two small bolts, size not certain of, could be 5mm or so. They can be get at to remove entire solenoid if need be.

I have no idea if that Honda Solenoid can be replaced with another and where I could get it from if need be.

May as well start and run the wires from scratch. I've managed to get black, red, white and blue wire cable, all 20Amp rated.

Male and female bullet connectors as well as Male and Female spade connectors.

One Fuse connector with 20Amp fuse or could go 25 or 30 Amp

I'll use the existing battery cables for power and earthing requirements.

Here are those pics taken this arvo.

Cheers Bondy[img]

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...646-greenfield_solenoid_cleaned_copy.jpg[/img]