OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Reel-Type Mowers Push mower fix and restore

OK, first of all, I'm really not sure if I have this in the right forum so mods please move if needed.

I recently bought an old push mower (non-engine) 2ndhand. I *think* it is a Pope Wimbledon model. It has 7 blades and I've included pics below. It doesn't seem to cut the grass properly. As in, I can't get it to move properly (as opposed to it moving fine but not cutting grass). I've also included a link to a youtube vid to show what I mean. I'm guessing parts are not on correctly or not adjusted correctly. Everything I've read says that these things should be nice and smooth to push when they work.

I have two main goals here:
1) Get it working correctly and well
2) Potentially restore it to a nice shiny condition, rather than what it is now.

If I could achieve either of these through this forum I'd be wrapped. So, basically I'm asking whether there'd be anyone who'd be willing to guide me through one or both of those things either here or by PM? I'd need a fairly patient person (!) since my handyman knowledge is not the best. I don't know the names of the parts, or what certain bits are for. I really want to get it in good working order so I can use it.

Well, I'll post the pics and video and go from there.

Video:

Hello user101!

A warm welcome to the ODK forums.
I think we can help you here.

I'll give you a bit of background shortly...

Okay, I know this machine pretty well.
The first thing for you to do is download the manual, so you may understand
the terminology. This can be done HERE.

Please reply when you have read the manual.
--------------------------------------------------
JACK.

Hello Jack and thanks for the welcome, and the hope you've given me.

I've downloaded and read the manual. Having said that, I still found some parts confusing, and most of the terminology for the parts list I don't know about. I guess the good thing is my mower has all its parts (although what state they're in is another matter).

Hello user101,

Okay, you don;t need to know every part name.
The main ones you need to know are these:

[working from the manual]
The 'cutting cylinder' is often called the reel (I prefer 'reel')
The 'cutter bar' is often called the 'sole plate' or 'bottom block'
Attached to this block by screws is a 'fixed blade' or 'bedknife'or 'bottom blade'

Now, I've looked at the video.
The most obvious thing that really stands out from you photograph(s) is
that the sole plate and its bedknife is touching on the ground. This is a big no-no.
In your photo (reproduced below) the height is set to the absolute minimum.



Go back to the manual and set the height to at least half way by loosening each knob
on the roller brackets. Your machine is skidding along the grass.
The sole plate should not touch the grass at all. The back roller should.

The next step is then to post a close up of the reel and sole plate taken
from underneath from the front of the machine. We need to see the condition
and thickness of the bottom blade or 'bedknife' and reel or 'cylinder'

I have included a YouTube video of a similar but modern machine.
Please note the concept of adjusting the reel to bedknife (discussed in your manual).

Cheers
------------------------
JACK.

[video][/video]

Jack,

This will probably be the start of you thinking "what have I done by agreeing to help this person" but here goes.

I looked under "Adjustment of Height of Cut". I went to turn the black knob on either side, the ones you've put the red arrow towards. The left one, the knob just unscrewed right off the screw. The right one didn't budge. Are they what I'm supposed to be turning? If so, it seems like they've totally jammed up.

Hello user101!

Okay, I'm thinking ...

...

I'm still thinking ...
'Internet sensations' have been made out of less than this.

What you have confirmed is that the roller was set at the lowest setting in the Video.
The above picture (with my infamous red arrow) shows washers that shouldn't be there anyway.

... Let's change tack, and assess the condition of the bottom blade and tyres.
Can we have a close-up of the bottom blade taken from the front?
Also, can we have a close-up of the condition of the tyres? There seems to be some damage.



This will help in assessing how to proceed in this matter.

----------------------------------
JACK.

Jack

I've included some pics below. I hope they're the right thing and angles. In order to adjust the height, can I try some wd40, or is that a "no-no" or just not worth it? I'm guessing the presence of the washers indicates that the height may be somehow "permanently fixed".

Hi user101 and ODK Members & Guests

They're great photos that tell the story here. To address this, this won't be an easy or short post.

I'll take the issues in turn: You said:-
I'm guessing the presence of the washers indicates that the height may be somehow "permanently fixed".

I think not, the washers were added because the knobs have just worn out.
The knobs seem to be beyond their service life, and the washers were added to secure the brackets.

The Wimbledon used four of these fasteners: two on the rear roller brackets; two on the curved
plate behind the reel (or cylinder). The difference was in how the screw was inserted:



The best way would be to simply grind off the heads of the bolts and free
the bolts from the roller brackets. Replace them with the better, deflector bolts and knobs.
[assuming the brackets are in good condition]

This, however, will not solve your objectives:-
You said this:

I have two main goals here:
1) Get it working correctly and well
2) Potentially restore it to a nice shiny condition, rather than what it is now.

Looking at your recent photographs, I do not think this machine is economic to repair
as a regular-use lawnmower. The bottom blade is worn out and the reel (cylinder)
does require re-grinding. This is very expensive.

Second, the tyre rubber is clearly deteriorating. New replacement parts are not available
for Pope Wimbledons.

The bottom line is: unless this machine has some sentimental value, meeting your
objectives may not be economical.

That's a pity, because Pope Wimbledon's were superb lawnmowers.

[NOTE: Having said that, the best advice would be to contact a local repairer that
sharpens reels and can manufacture a new bottom blade. If this can be done within your
budget then we can assist in helping you disassemble and re-assemble the machine - CJ]

You have highlighted a real issue in push reel-lawnmower restorations user101.
This is a complex issue: the desire to 'make live' an old mower versus the cost
of doing so. I await your response.

I hope this helps.
------------------------------------------
JACK.

These knobs are just the locking screws for the adjustment. It should be possible to loosen them; if not, it's time for some penetrating lubricant [CRC 5-56, Inox/Lanox, Penetrene - not WD-40].

The quadrant shaped 'roller brackets' should be free to move, but don't look like they are. These provide the actual cutting height adjustment. Some more penetrating lube, and probably removal to clean up rust between these brackets and the chassis, is indicated.

Gadge and Jack,
Thanks for your replies. It's been very wet where I am and I haven't had time to do much with it lately. But I was going to ask whether if I could step back and actually adjust the height, that would change things. What confuses me is that when I tested it (before I paid for it) it cut the grass perfectly. It rolled as it should and there was no indication that the grass wasn't being properly cut. So I'm surprised to hear that the cutting blade probably needs replacing.

Gadge, what's wrong with WD-40?

Jack, I would at least like to have a go at getting it working, even if I can't restore it. I'm not sure what you mean by economically not worth it, perhaps you're saying that it would be cheaper for me to buy a new one?

By the way, can someone explain how to get this system to send me an email when someone replies to a post?

Hi user101, Moderator Gadge and ODK members & Guests

Yes, I do not believe I handled your questions well at all.
I think I was too focused on your restoration objective than your first objective.
However, the bottom blade is very thin - it may have a season's work left in it.

Gadge will answer your question of WD-40 (I'm not the expert on these fluids).
I will get an answer for you on the email notification question.

So, lets deal with the primary issue I identified (height):-


As Gadge said, the adjuster bracket (9) has notched serrations in it for quick
height adjustment. Knob/nut (18)has a chamfer that meets the bracket to set the height.

Your photo shows washers; suggesting that either the bracket is worn, or the knob/nut chamfer.
Whatever case, the low height of cut will greatly impede use of this mower.

We need to loosen the fasteners and adjust the height; so that we can exclude height of cut
as a factor in the machine being difficult to push - and cut grass.

Note that screw (17) is slotted (for a screw driver). Have you tried loosening the screws
this way?

JACK.

Hi there user101 I have (I think) the same model just without the deflector shield and catcher.
If you need any or all of it for parts just let me know.It's just sitting here taking up space and generally getting in the road..
Here's some pictures.






Let me know what you think.I can box it up and make it smaller to save on freight if you are interested.Prefer to see it go to good use,Or on my next scrap run away it will go.

OK, firstly, apologies to everyone in advance. And thanks in advance for whoever sticks with this thread. I still feel clueless about the names of the different parts, and what they do. Yes, I've read the manual (more than once). I just don't "see" it. If it helps, and you have trouble with algebra, just think of your reaction to algebra and that'll give you some idea of what I'm feeling here. Like a fool...

Anyway, I decided to do something different and try to disassemble the machine as much as I could. Bad move? Probably. But I thought we weren't getting anywhere in its current state so why not?

First, Blumbly, thanks for your kind offer. Don't throw it out yet. I may well need some of those parts but at this point I don't know. Hopefully we'll know soon.

Jack, according to your diagrams above, I note that I don't have any slotted screw (17). It's just not there. All that was there was those black knobs sitting over the bolt-thing.

For now, what I'm going to do is include the photos I took of the parts disassembled, in the order I disassembled. I will comment after each one and then await further thoughts. If anyone needs better closeups of anything, just let me know.


the handle and deflector plate



these are the knobs which go on the bolts which somewhere should have slots for a screwdriver but don't. Also the washers which were noted before.



not sure what this is and whether there are actually 2 parts rather than just one.


these nuts and washers went somewhere but I can't remember where. They came off in sequence with the other photos


The wheels, showing the nuts and bolts etc and (for me) the order which things were attached



this gear thing was also on the wheel


these three cylindrical parts "fell out" next


the main frame. I tried removing the side parts from the reel but couldn't.



the inside


the outside on one side



the outside on the other side



two random things that dropped out from somewhere which I don't know what they are

Now, pulling up one of those photos,


I get the impression I'm supposed to be able to put a screwdriver in this part and remove it, in order to remove the height adjuster thing. But I don't have one that'll do it.

At the end of all this, I fear we are still no closer to being able to adjust the height!

Bottom line: if the general consensus is that I am better off writing this off and buying a new or newer mower, just let me know. I'm starting to think that myself.

As for you last picture and whether you need a undo that pin.NO you don't,that is just a pin to hold the front roller on.The only way to remove it is to cut it off,but once its off it won't go back on,unless welded,so unless it is very worn then just leave it there.
Sounds like you have gone to far to soon and now you got yourself all flustered.That happens.
I think there was too much focus on the height adjuster there not that hard to adjust.The first picture CyberJack put up on the right is the height adjuster you can see the teeth and the different settings to where the front roller sits(Inside the red circle in the picture below).Also there is another adjuster near the blades but too late now.
Also there (In the green circle) is the non-removable pin for the roller in your last picture.


I guess the thing that faces you now,is.
Is it worth your time to do?
Do you want to do it?
Do you want to learn about?
If you wanted to restore it your now in the right spot to do so.
It all depends on what you want to do.If you think it's done then it's done.No good listen to other people and you will get mixed answers as some will be on either side of the fence.
The big question is.....What do you want to do?
The only manual I can see there and find is an owners manual so don't get dis-guarded by that you need a workshop manual and I'm not sure anybody would have one.
So just ask your self,
Do you want to do it?

Hey Blumbly,

I want two main things: 1) not to annoy other people through this process, and 2) to get the mower cutting grass. The bonus would be a restoration, but when push comes to shove, I will happily settle for a working mower. My main annoyance with things is the frustration I have with myself for not knowing about this stuff. It is what it is. Anyway, yes, I want to get a working mower. What's next do you think?

If your going to restore it.Then check the parts are usable then start the painting process,but if your going to restore it,it is a far bigger job than just putting back together in a working order.I seen the video of it,it didn't look that bad just some adjusting and lubing,but now it's a much bigger job.So really you need to work out how far your going to go.Like when I restore a mower I pull it apart check every part and replace anything not usable.Work out whether it's a full restore (Most are)and then prepare each and every part paint etc etc.
So I guess you need to know how far you want to go.
That's the first thing you need to work out.
How far do you want to go?
As a build like this even on this forum is going to take time.
Do you want to restore ?
or Just put back together?

Put back together and get it working.

It's just that it is not intended as a penetrating lubricant, and isn't at all a good one. It is good for dewatering exposed surfaces, and that's about it.

It performs poorly on both the penetration, and especially lubrication, counts. In fact if the petroleum distillate carrier is evaporated off, a brown sticky gum is the residue. Which clags things up, rather than freeing them!
Click on the 'FAQ' button in the forum menu bar, then open the topic 'How do Watch Lists work?'. This explains how to set it up.

OK then did you take pictures of it as you were pulling it apart?

No. But I put all the parts on the ground in the order in which I pulled them apart.

OK then check and clean parts as you put them back on.I guess for now the best thing would be to put it back together and then we can go there.As when you are new to these things you can do to much to soon.My first restore of a car I stripped the car bear and took all the paint back to bear metal,then a few months later I through the car out as it had become way to big for me to finish.I learnt big time them.I know this is only a mower but it can still blow out like that.So yes I think for now getting it back together is the way to go.

Hello user101, Gadge, Blumbly and followers

I don't think this is a case of annoyance. If you are keen to learn about hand-mowers then this is a good mower to start with. Given the context, this is not a good candidate for a restoration. However there is some promise in getting the machine cutting grass, but not as a regular user without considerable expense.

I have labelled some of your photographs to assist here. I note that you have picked-up some of the terminology in correctly identifying the 'deflector plate'. That plate need only be fitted if you plan to catch grass in the grass catcher. If you do not want to catch grass, then that plate may be removed altogether.

So, lets get started ...

[1] Can you confirm that you can pivot the roller brackets up and down?
Penetrating fluid as Mod. Gadge has suggested will be most useful.

[2] It appears that you have removed the height adjusting bolts.
These are the 'random things' that you have identified.
One is original; the other is a hardware item - too long - requiring non-original washers.

[3] I led you astray with me saying these bolts were slotted (for a screwdriver)
They are simple coach bolts, with a flat that fits in a square slot in the mower frame.

[4] It would be great if we had a photo of the other side of the height adjusting plastic knobs.
It may be they no longer have a chamfer or bevel and are simply worn out.

If this is the case, a trip to the hardware for a couple of coach bolts, washers and
wing nuts would be the first step in being able to adjust the height.

This is the first step in adjusting the height on the mower so that it may work correctly.

------------------------------
JACK.

Yes, I see that now, and definitely appreciate knowing it. I've come to the conclusion that it's definitely not worth restoring, apart from taking my time as a "labour of love".

Well, this may change things for me. I live on nearly one acre, and I'd say 60-65% of the property would be lawn or grass, requiring mowing. I am very happy to be using a reel type mower to do it (in fact for reasons such as exercise, no fumes, no startup trouble etc etc I'd rather use this type of mower). But I see that perhaps using this old wimbledon may not work. In other words, maybe I'm better off purchasing a brand new one. I'd be interested in being pointed to any threads about how to choose a good one.

Thanks a lot! Super helpful for someone like me.

Oh boy, that's the first time I've heard that. I thought it was essential to have it fitted and initially thought the mower wouldn't work cause I didn't have the deflector plate on. Given my property, I'll generally mow without one.

At present I can't budge the roller brackets at all. I think that's been the problem all along. I only have wd-40 so I have no fluid to use at the moment.

Thankyou.

Here are a few:

Maybe you better off starting with another mower.Just remember newer ones are no where near as good as the older ones.The quality of parts and labour just aren't there any more.No quality control.
So I'll scratch mine of the list and back into the scrap pile.Poor old thing,but that's just how it goes I guess.You win some and you lose some.
I do feel though that you would be better starting again,as I feel your heart and soul isn't in it this time.There is nothing worse than trying to do a job when your just not in it.
See how you go there,but I can see your just not that into it.

Hello 101

[1] Okay, it seems pretty obvious now why the packing washers were used.
The knobs are no longer serviceable. Remember, though, that you may have
two good ones in the deflector plate. Unscrew these, remove the centre screw
and see if they have good bevels.

[2] If WD-40 is all you have, use it around the bracket pivots. A small
block of wood knocked against the bracket should free them - easily.

[3]Given the context - size of yard and intended use (regular), this is not
the machine for you - because sharpening and setting, making a new bottom blade,
etc. would make this an expensive project. And what happens if a tyre breaks
through age? Too many variables mate.

[4] I would like to say something about 'purchasing a brand new one'.
The rise of health and environmental issue has created a revival of 'people-powered'
machines in the European and North American markets. That movement has not really
caught on here - yet.

There are a number of quality hand mowers made today. Regrettably, most are not
imported to these shores. The best readily available here is the Flymo HERE.

I will send you a PM (look in My Stuff) at top of forum bar with some options.

Hope this helps.
-------------------------------
JACK.

Hi Bumbly, sorry but you're wrong. My heart's definitely in whatever the best thing is. I'm now convinced (mainly from CyberJack's comments) that it's not worth my while to persevere with this machine. I'm happy with that. If it'd worked out that it was worth fixing it up, I would have happily given it my best.

Cyberjack, thanks a heap for your ongoing help. I got your PM and will look into buying a new one.

OK but that's what I mean,by (I can see your just not that into it),and that's fine.That's what I've been trying to work out as to whether it was worth you doing it,and only you could decide that. We've all fixed things that aren't work it.Hey look at most of my collection there not worth much at all,but I (and others) fix (and restore) the same makes and models cause we want to.It's not always what the worth or the dollars value is.
OK cool that's fine now we know.
Maybe I should get the deflector shield and catcher from you and complete this one I have hear.
Hmmmmmm.

Ah, there's the difference! I want to only because I have a task to do (mow the lawn!) not because I have a love for these things.

Please, have anything you want from my now unused reel mower. I see you're in Brisbane so I'm not sure how it'd work getting it there from Tassie.

Well if we were too,all I need is the catcher,deflector shield and the back roller as mine has rusted out.Also the screws bolts etc etc for the deflector as mine does not have any of that.
I could restore it and then you'd be able to see how it may have looked new.

OK. How do I get it to you?