Thanks Max, I have thought that the gears might have been installed on the wrong side, all I could think of but so far I haven't worked out how to get the gears off. Doesn't look like the one in the pic, not enough room to fit all those bits in it, the gear looks similar but that is about it. I am stuck on it and I can't give up on this basic engineering principle that is driving me nuts.
Does anyone know if the gearbox setup/config is any different for the 560 series?
I haven't disassembled the gearbox (Or any Victa gearbox to that point), but when I called Victa and asked for official workshop documentation that I could potentially purchase (For either the MSP562/MSV562/MMX482), they reported that essentially the official Victa manual is the Gregorys 424 manual (Which is no longer in production, but which I do own, and in it is reported that many of the images are provided by Victa, so it would appear they've worked collaboratively to produce this publication). The problem is the 424 manual stops at the 550 series and was last modified in 1991 (I believe). So if there was a change to the gearbox setup/functionality, I'm not aware of any official documentation of it, and as far as I'm aware at this point, Victa considers the gearbox/axle assembly a whole unit replacement which they don't intend to be serviced.
So I don't think we'll get any info on internal movements and how to troubleshoot. I think the closest we'll get is troubleshooting the pinion gears on the end of the driveshaft and the overrun clutch. Perhaps for more information, we would need to contact Victa directly and ask them... for this iteration of the gearbox (If it's different to the aforementioned 550 diagrams in the Gregorys manual), how is it supposed to function in relation to moving back and forth, and is locking up of the wheels normal, etc.
I did expect that it would be more difficult at least to a degree to move due to some sort of engagement by the gearbox, and I can deal with the slightly more difficult movement, my main concern is the wheels locking up because if you're doing something as simple as moving in a square, whenever you get to a corner and need to rotate, you can find yourself trying to pull the mower back when the wheels don't want it to move and as everyone has mentioned and it is true... it's not a light unit without pulling it against its' will! An alternative is to lift the rear of the mower and pull it back towards you with the freely moving front wheels, but that should never be recommended or considered a safe option in my opinion.
Thank you all so much for your replies and for looking into this. Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to take another look at my mower and see what's going on, but as soon as I do I'll post an update, but of course, feel free to continue troubleshooting and if there's anything I can help with I will. If you'd like pictures of some pages from the 424 manual to assist, please let me know, I'm more than happy to provide them.
Hi Paul, something that has troubled me a little is the PDF that Bruce put up to me it looks like the gearbox is on the right side of the mower, the height adjuster lever is on the left but the height adjuster quadrant is on the right hand side. Is this how yours is, with mine the box is on the left. Bizare as it might sound I even thought (while trying to go to sleep ) I was trying to work out some lever system with another set of wheels behind the drive ones just so you could push the lever and lift the drive wheels just clear of the ground. I know another dumb idea but I'm running out of ideas. I guess if I did put another pair of wheels on it I could call it a 6 wheeler mower, now that would look cool
Bizare as it might sound I even thought (while trying to go to sleep ) I was trying to work out some lever system with another set of wheels behind the drive ones just so you could push the lever and lift the drive wheels just clear of the ground. I know another dumb idea but I'm running out of ideas
Hi Norm,
I actually like the idea of that if it's possible, though I don't think it is without heavy modification. Of course, we wouldn't need to come up with an idea like that if they simply had the gearbox disengage when the drive wheels are moving (Which I think is actually supposed to happen).
As for the image posted, it's nice and confusing. The mower is facing one direction, but they've rotated the gearbox and driveshaft assembly so you're looking at it in the correct direction (As if you're standing behind the mower). I'm at work and don't have the manual in front of me at the moment, but with a quick search, I found the below image, which I have rotated to show what it should look like..ish. When standing at the rear of the mower, the gearbox should be on the left, the height adjustment handle should be on the right, and there should be a steel plate which the height adjustment arm attaches to on the left of the driveshaft (Which reaches forward and connects to the front wheel shaft to adjust the height there).
I said before, "The only other way the drive gears can work in the opposite direction is if someone puts the left over run clutch and drive assembly on the right hand side, so if they are installed on the wrong side they drive in reverse because one is for the left side only the other is right side only.."
That is missing information,if you swap the gears to the wrong sides you will have no forward drive the over run clutch will slip on both sides you would need to turn the drive pulley in the opposite direction when the gears are on the wrong sides to get reverse drive.
With drawings schematics and pictures,I have seen a lot that are backward as they must have made the image from the wrong side of the negative.
I'm hearing you Max, it doesn't look as if the gears have been removed at some stage, or it has been operated in this manner for a long time. I'm going to see if I can remove the gears now and let you know what I find.
Thanks Max, good one that is all it was, the gears had been fitted the wrong way around. How could anybody pull the gears out, put it back together, find it doesn't work and just leave it that way. Just in case anybody wants to remove the gear/clutches they are held on with a roll pin that is located through the cut out sections in the gear, you rotate the shaft till you can see the pin and then you can punch it out and the gear/clutch comes off as a complete assembly. Not sure how that comes apart.
Ok I have it all back together and everything appears to be working as it should, pulling backwards is still too heavy for my liking, just too stiff, so I am still thinking a set of wheelie bar wheels on the back so it can be moved around easily
I don't think so Max, not going to be effective when wanting to pull the mower backwards when you are mowing whic is what the problem is that Paul was having. It is just the resistance that the gearbox has when moving it backwards. Not one of Victas finest achievements
I've got a Victa MSV562 Self-Propelled mower, and I've noticed that when the drive belt isn't engaged, moving the mower forward is often much more difficult, but also when trying to move backwards, the rear wheels sometimes lock up and if they don't, it's still just as difficult to move backwards. Hi Paul, I just re-read you original statement, the belt is engaged all the time under spring pressure, so the gearbox pulley is spinning all the time the motor is running. What you actually engage with the lever is a clutch of some sort in the gearbox itself, this internal setup I' have no idea how it works, but what I have found with the motor running the mower will move forward without holding the lever in, it is just friction drag through the box, but when I engage the lever the mower rockets forward, way to fast for me to keep up. What I am not sure of is if letting it move forward without the clutch engaged, is it going to wear the internal clutch quickly because it is obviously slipping. With the clutch disengaged it is easy to hold it to prevent it moving forward and it is only travelling at about half the pace it does when engaged. Not sure if this has helped much but it seems like this is the way they are
The roller skate idea is just for moving the mower on the concrete when the engine is not running Norm, you should not have problem pulling the mower backwards the gears should freewheel easily,I had a self propelled mower with the same drive set up as the Honda,it would lock up when pulling the mower backwards,I just removed the drive gears cleaned them and re lubricated the ratchet and the mower had no problem moving backwards.I have not had to fix these later Victa gears so without pulling them apart I can't say if they are serviceable but replacement cost is $21 a gear.Not sure if you get the unit complete with the over run clutch or it is just the gear for $21 but others I have seen for sale were complete gears with the over run clutch.
Hi Max, I did lube as best I could inside the gears, It works ok if you could keep up to it,I feel it is geared way too high but that might just be because I have difficulty walking. It pulls back ok but there is a fair bit of drag on it, but I guess that is just the way it is with these. I would like to get hold of another one just to compare them but they don't come up for sale too often.
Hi Norm ,It's been a few years since I've taken my self propelled Victa for a spin but from what I remember yes they are a bit of a brisk walk even when you lower the rpm to slow down the drive speed.I remember the mower was easier to push forward with the drive belt tensioner disengaged after the mower was used for a few minutes..
what I have found with the motor running the mower will move forward without holding the lever in, it is just friction drag through the box, but when I engage the lever the mower rockets forward, way to fast for me to keep up. What I am not sure of is if letting it move forward without the clutch engaged, is it going to wear the internal clutch quickly because it is obviously slipping.
Hi Norm,
I'd suggest based on what you're saying:
1. The clutch drive cable may be too tight and is constantly engaging the drive clutch, but only enough to rotate the wheels at part/half speed. Giving the cable some slack may help. 2. The variable speed cable may be too tight due to the variable speed setting you've got it on, or because the cable is too tight. Either would result in the gearbox constantly spinning at too fast of a speed. If you find it occurs with the throttle in the slowest position, the cable is too tight. In the slowest position, it should either not engage, at all when tensioning the drive clutch, or if it does engage, it should be slow.
Originally Posted by NormK
these would be best suited to bigger lawn areas that don't need catching, my preference is still a 24
Similar to the 18" commercial, the 24 is also a side chute mower, is that correct? Is it possible to mulch with either the 18" (MSP462) or the 24" (MSP602)? If not, and you can only cut and chute, you're really limited to short grass aren't you (Assuming you're mowing grass to the 1/3 rule and trying to have a nice lawn after)?
Paul, with the cable disconnected it still wants to drive forward, easy enough to hold it though. A mate of mine does a number of inner suburb lawns with his 24 and the owners are very happy with the way they looks, Then the 24 is also capable of chewing through 3 foot high grass with ease
I had another look at this one yesterday and I am convinced I am going to have to put a lazy axle on it at the rear so it can be tilted back to allow the drive wheels to just clear the ground. You can pull it backwards but it is not easy, the drag ( I'm not sure what is causing the drag) is hard to pull against. Pushing forward is no harder that pushing a normal mower. When engaged the drive works fine although a bit too fast for me to keep up.
