OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Collectors Corner Identification of Particular Machines J.A.P. Model 6??

Hi Guys

Here's the JAP I picked up recently - I first thought it was a Model 5, but now I think it is a Model 6 - but I guess that just demonstrates that I don't really know what I'm talking about.

The only identifying marks that I have seen after a quick look is the large "J.A.P. LONDON" that you will see in the photos.

I had a really quick look at it - its got spark and pretty reasonable compression - so that's a good start.

Whatever it is - it's a monster!!

What do you guys think? A Model 6??





More photos:
http://s941.photobucket.com/user/g_...nary%20Engines/JAP%20Model%206/eBay%20Ad

Polybus

Those are excellent pictures you've put on photobucket Polybus. Why not post them here? You can put up to 10 pictures in each post. Photobucket records are not permanent - we've had good threads ruined in our archives by the pictures disappearing from them.

Polybus, have a look at the base gasket area on the right hand side above the "JAP LONDON" as in the photo of my 4/3 below, it should tell you what you have.




hope this helps.

Some other info


JAP Year Letters:-
P - 1920, 1940
N - 1921, 1941
E - 1922, 1942
U - 1923, 1943
M - 1924, 1944
A - 1925, 1945
T - 1926, 1946
I - 1927, 1947
C - 1928, 1948
S - 1929, 1949
W - 1930, 1950
H - 1931, 1951
Y - 1932, 1952
Z - 1933, 1953
D - 1934, 1954
R - 1935, 1955
V - 1936, 1956
F - 1937, 1957
O - 1938, 1958
G - 1939, 1959

Model 0 (34cc) Two Stroke
Model 2A (98cc) Four Stroke
Model 2S (98cc) Four Stroke
Model 4F (186cc) Four Stroke
Model 4/2 (245cc) 2.4bhp @ 2400rpm, Wico Mag A576BZ Four Stroke
Model 4/3 (288cc) 3.5bhp @ 2400rpm, Wico Mag CJ936 Four Stroke
Model 5 (412cc) 4.5bhp @ 2200rpm, Wico Mag CJ936 Four Stroke
Model 6 (588cc) 5.5bhp @ 1800rpm, Wico Mag CJ936 Four Stroke
Model 55 (824cc) (V-twin) 8bhp @ 2000rpm, Wico Mag Four Stroke

Thanks for that jonesy, your posts are gradually creating a very useful J.A.P. archive. A question: do you really mean those last 5 engines had American (WICO) magnetos, not British (WIPAC) ones? It's interesting that they would have fitted the WIPAC ones to so many engines if they could get WICO ones.

Hi All,

In 1941 the British subsidiary of WICO merged with the company Pacy (a British spark plug manufacturer) to become WIPAC. I would assume that they manufactured the American design under license (which given that they were originally part of the same company would be likely) and that any "new" design that was wholly the product of the WIPAC firm would have been branded such.

Cheers,

Sir Chook

That does raise a further possibility Sir Chook: the newly formed WIPAC may or may not have retained a right to use the WICO brand and/or assemble WICO products for a few years as a transitional arrangement after 1941. Do you know whether they branded anything WICO after 1941?

As requested

I didn't realise Photobucket links were not permanent - and I didn't want to clog these posts with lots of photos - but seeing as I've been invited







(note the magneto seems to be upside down - something to do with the direction of rotation I guess.


This one should be fun to restore - if anyone sees an engine cowl/cover for this little fella - let me know!!!

Polybus

We don't want to clog the archives Polybus, as you say, but we do want to record rare and interesting machines. Ten pictures of a modern machine, or even an elderly but common one, would not be a valuable contribution, but the rarer the machine, the more important it is to archive details of it. Provided the machine is fairly complete and the pictures are good ones (as yours are), they are well worth preserving.

Of course, now that we've preserved the pictures, we do need to know the model and serial number - are they on the top face of the crankcase as jonesy suggested?

OK - I finally got a chance to have a dig at the J.A.P. looking for the Engine No:

First place I looked was at the base gasket area on the right hand side above the "JAP LONDON" - and lo and behold - there's the Engine No - Thanks Jonsey!!



Engine No: 6F/89796/1

but I couldn't find another number just near it, as on Jonesy's example.

So from Jonesy's J.A.P. dating chart it looks like I have:

J.A.P. Model 6 - Made sometime between 1937 and 1957? (or did I read that wrong - should that be made in either 1937 or 1957.

The guy who gave it to me said his father had it hanging about as a corroded hulk in his shed since the 60's, so perhaps I've got the 1937 one.

No doubt about you guys - you're a fount of knowledge and good advice!!

Polybus

Polybus, what jonesy posted was a series of 20 year-letters, so every 20 years the series would start again. As I read it, that means 6F is either 1937 or 1957, not somewhere between. There should be enough major design differences, aside from the known production period of the Model 6, to make it easy to tell which it is. Not that I could tell, but I'm pretty sure jonesy could.

Polybus, Grumpy & ODK members, firstly Grumpy you are correct with the year No's, it would be 37 or 57 (my guess 37), secondly Grumpy you give me too much credit of knowledge, Voljon is the man that knows more about the JAP, and as for your asumption with the magnito's go, the ones I have seen all have the Wipac maggies, but in all the manuals I have seen state the Wico as standard eqipment, so I cant figure that one out either, I will post a link to a site were you will find the manual Polybus for the 6 as it may breach copyright to post the manual, you do have to register but it is free and a clean site. Internal Fire museum of power
And Polybus the second set of numbers on my engine as far as I have been able to establish hold no meaning to the JAP company, my engine was ex Public works department so could have been just for thier records. Also the last digit in your number would indicate something specific about the engine, I was told by Voljon that the 6 in my No indicated it was fitted with a non standard part. My engine is also the only one I have seen that did not have the "LONDON" under the JAP on the crankcase, relavance?? I do know that JAP was later sold to Norton Villiers. I have seen a couple of 6 cowles for sale on Ebay but have not seen a 4/3 yet , Keep looking!