OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Walk Behind Lawn Mower Frames Reel Lawn Mowers, Atco & Villiers etc. I think it is a ... Morrison or Imperial?

This was advertised as a 18 inch Scott Bonner. I know that it is a 20" and think that it is a Morrison. Am I correct??? The motor runs and it cuts grass so I bought it.

Hello exfarmer

Yes, this is most definitely a Morrison.
It has been re-powered & catcher is not original.

Hope this helps.
-----------------------
Jack

Thanks Jack
I guest it had been re powered but had not picked the catcher it has had new bearings on the reel and been sharpened recently a new gasket on the intake will have it running as it should as the Carby and fuel tank were rocking and rolling, just tighten the bolts had it running but there is still a air leak that interferes with idle. Might keep this one as my every day machine.

Thanks again

its 1 20" imperial . and says in my owners manual it should have a kirby engine , so a re'power has happened (for the better too) catcher looks correct but should be alpine green

a morrison of sorts , it is a victa 20" imperial , same as i have here but it has had an engine swap , should be a kirby and would have been alpine green in its 1st life .

big blank primer looking space on cather would have been an IMPERIAL sticker

Hello vccomm

Yes mate, this one could be an Imperial.
There are defined differences.

I have written a record for the Imperial HERE.

Hope this helps.
------------------------
Jack

so my machine isnt one ? and my owners manual is wrong too ? ooooooooooh , woe is me !!!!!

Maybe, but not necessarily.
Dave, you have made me re-think my original assessment.

The catcher is not original but a well-made replacement.
For the first four years - 1966 to 1970 - the Imperial was
identical to the Morrison. For the next two years, changes
were made to the 4-stroke Imperial. After that, more changes
were made with the introduction of the 2-stroke Imperials.

Victa moved away from the original Morrison design, as Morrison
had done with the original Ransomes Mk 7 design.

I don't know what the paint scheme for the Morrison was.
I'm happy to investigate further.

Apologies to exfarmer, I am now less certain

------------------------
Jack

no worries jack , i know mine is all orig' and came with the owners book to , i think its in here somwhere from when i had a scanner waaaaaaaay back when .
im sure the 2 strokes were just the smaller jobbies too . far as i read and heared all the 20's were kirby's so when i do find a correct dated B+S it falls on it as the kirby i never did like and this one suffers from carb problems too and i dislike them so its off to meet the scrap or some other place if anyone wants it


when i unbury it in my shed , i'll chuck up a photo or two . soooo many similarities its scary

G'day Dave

Most Imperials that survive are the two strokes.
Victa dropped the 4-strokes in 1972. The 2-strokes are more common today,
and the advertising suggests that they were the biggest sellers.

exfarmer's machine was problematic in that it was missing crucial evidence -
the engine brand & colour. Morrison used both the Tecumseh H25 and the
Kirby HK25.

This machine is interesting in that it is a 1960s machine.
The cross handles were the original Ransomes design, and Morrison
(and Victa) used them on the earliest models 1966-70.

The later 4-strokes had the folding handle and changes to
the clutch-side flywheel (1970-71).

If I could establish what the Morrison chassis colour was, then
it may prove (if different) that exfarmer has the first model Imperial.

exfarmer's machine has had some repainting, and an engine change,
and a well-made replacement catcher.

This is a long-winded response suggesting my original assessment
is less certain than I thought. So,thanks Dave for keeping me honest.

--------------------
Jack

Hi guys
Didn't think I would start this discussion. The guy I bought it from said his father changed the motor. I will ring him and see if his father can remember what motor was on it and will scratch away the paint and try to see what the base paint is. Its in bits at the moment as the drive roller end came off and it lost drive as spider gears in centre of roller were not contacting. (will post Photos tomorrow). I don't think there is serious damage just need to weld end back on offending roller. It was fun though getting the drive sprocket off with no drive on the roller, hence the machine got striped.
But I am now very curious and determined to find out if its a Victa or a Morrison


Regards
Andy

Good afternoon guys
The paint under the frame appears original and looks like a Hammertone green.
The roller end that came off, dont know yet if the spider gears are beyond redemption but I think that the damage is minor when cleaned up and they might live again.
Scratched some of the silver away on handles and it appears as olive green gloss that is original as there is nothing else under it.
Did the Kirby and the Briggs have the same bolt pattern as there are no extra holes or alteration made to fit the Briggs motor ??
Dose any of this help with verifying if it is a Morrison or a Victa??

Hello exfarmer
Yes, the Briggs and Kirby had identical bolt holes.
Every bit counts. I feel I can identify this - and with regained confidence.
The bottom line: was it a Morrison or a Victa?

I have a confession to make about an initial error I made here.
Because your machine had no single point height adjuster, I
assumed it could not have been an Imperial. A clear error, not
just in itself, but in preventing me from noticing another vital clue...

Your evidence of the Olive green colour on the handles is important.
The Imperial (not the Morrison) used olive green on the handles and
the Kirby engine had this unusual colour also. That olive green
was used on 1960s Victa spec. 4 stroke engines (including rotaries).

My best guess is that Morrison went with the same chassis colour
(the Hammertone Apple green) but used white colour engines and handles.

In this 1970 NZ photo (cropped) of a Morrison show stand, notice the
apple green hammertone, but with white Kirby motor and handles. I do
point out that these Morrisons are the second version (intro. in 1970)
that had the folding 'U' shaped handle. I love the cutaway model (right)



Now, the vital clue. I had argued on these forums that the other
significant difference between Morrisons and Imperials was the
Imperial lacked a manufacturer's plate on the RH sideframe.

Your machine has no plate.
So, my opinion - now - is that this was a Victa Imperial.

--------------------
Jack

Thanks Jack
Also thanks to vccomm

I will now call it a Victa Imperial. Have fixed the roller and bought paint to spruce the old girl up seeing that it is in bits, might paint the motor in the same colour as the handle bars to give it a bit of original patina.
Dose any body know what happened to the guy who has mower decals on E-Bay, currently he is not advertising there????

Thanks again your knowledge is appreciated.

Regards
Andy

Do you mean eBay seller 'silensmessor'? His profile there said that he was away, but it looks like he's returned in the past few days.

His ODK handle is 'willingworker', if you want to send a PM.

Here is the old girl looking a bit better in her close to original colours, yes I gave the Briggs a coat of paint to match the original colours so it looks more original than it is.

Thanks Gadge, I have messaged our decal man along with photos and sizes of decals for my Scott Bonner 590 and he is in the process of making them up

A bit better would be an understatement Andy.
She looks sensational!

I guess, now, the issue is the longevity of those plastic bevel gears.
I have not been able to ascertain whether Masport still uses these
gears on current machines.

p.s. That lawn looks pretty good too.

----------------------
Jack

Thanks Jack
Yes I had just mowed the lawn with it as test run. I actually managed to get a second hand set of gears that looked far better than mine so now have the old ones as spares.

Regards
Andy