Long time lurker on the forums but first time posting, i have recently jumped into the world of reel mowing and purchased what I believe to be a scott bonnar 45 twin rail, however the serial badge has long since disappeared from the rail to be able to confirm. I do need to get some more photos of her to upload but will get to that this evening after work. I intend to fully restore the old girl to her former glory but was hoping to wait until winter to do this, as after adjusting the reel the mower is still cutting very well, in saying this looking at the bottom blade i believe i will have to replace this when i pull her apart.
First question would be is there any way to identify the model of mower seeings how the serial badge has been removed?
Second question is, currently it has a briggs and stratton engine on it, somewhat newer than the mower i believe, the previous owner has been servicing her regularly and has provided receipts to back this up, the motor runs fine but is insanely noisy, i am currently under the impression the muffler baffles may have collapsed, i have been told by my local mower shop that it is quite common when undoing the muffler that the casing on these engines will crack, is there any way to avoid this or a recommended way to remove the muffler?
If i was to crack or damage the casing i have already priced a new motor, either a honda GP160 or briggs and stratton 550, any thoughts on these two would be appreciated.
Will upload more photos later on.
Looking forward to your feedback.
Last edited by Bonnar_Bloke; 23/01/1901:23 PM. Reason: Photo Orientation
Your machine is not missing it's ID plate and that is because it was never fitted with one originally.
You'll see that it has the white serial sticker on it which states nothing more than the Model: 45 and a Serial number given.
The variant number is no longer given as by this stage of production there were not a number of different variants available like there was in earlier times. Simply all that was available was the 17 and 20 inch machines, both Briggs powered.
Am I correct that yours is the 20 inch machine as it looks somewhat wider than the 17 in your included photo. I'd also say that yours was built around 1979 to1980 during the Challenge Banks time of Scott Bonnar ownership.
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
THank you for the information, that makes a lot more sense and is a relief to know that there isn't a piece missing from my machine no matter how small.
The machine is a 17 but it would seem that my photography skills are not very good. A 20 inch model would be more than overkill for my yard at this stage i'm afraid.
In relation to the Briggs attached, do you know if they were a 3/4 or 5/8 keyway, not particularly wanting to go and buy a set of callipers just to measure this?
So finally got home and tried to loosen the retaining ring on the muffler, (penatrant oil soaked since last night) with no joy. I'm worried that any more force may damage the casing on the mower. Is there an easier way to remove the muffler?
Photos uploaded, had to be a little quiet so no photo of the chains or gearing yet as bub was asleep on the other side of the back wall, any tips on what i may need to get sorted as a priority during my restoration?
Am hoping to get to this during winter as the machine is cutting pretty well at the moment and would like to see the growing season out with it before pulling her apart.
Firstly, Sorry but I didn't address your issue on the muffler in your previous post.
Honestly I've never had any sort of issue removing these and as such have never cracked an engine block in the process.
How I do it is to simply use a long series pin punch (8 to 10mm) and place it against one of the teeth of the lock ring and give it a sharp blow and it generally comes undone on the first strike. Giving it an overnight soaking of penetrene etc. is a good practice.
Now that you've put up a full series of photos we can see that this chassis has either suffered from a catastrophic rail failure due to a non maintained clutch half which incidentally has already been replaced or it was well on the way and someone has simply tacked on some strengthening steel so that it doesn't get any worse, regardless it's currently looking rather ugly and will require someone with good skills to unpick it all and restore it back to original appearance with no scars left behind as evidence, also keeping in mind that all this will cost a fair bit over and beyond a normal restoration if employing someone to do this procedure.
Alternatively you could just tidy it up mechanically and just keep using it, they don't all have to be spotless show-pieces I guess and as such keep a look out for another that has a much better chassis to do a full resto on.
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
I will have another shot at loosening the ring this evening after work, there is the possibility that i didn't hit the punch hard enough after being told the casings tended to crack if not careful.
The guy i got the mower from had some photos left from during his fix of the rails that showed a very small crack on the rear rail near the right hand bolt hole, maybe 3mm long, i'm pretty confident i can get the welded steel off and tidy up his handy work without to much drama, benefits of growing up with a boilermaker welder father i spent weekends in the workshop with i guess.
We will see how i go i guess, i do intend to have a go at repairing the damage he has caused to the rails, before doing this i will take the paint off around the bolt holes just to make sure it isn't worse than the photos showed, if they are too far gone i may be forced to seek out a different mower to restore (i need a winter project this year, car restoration last year). If nothing else this mower will work well to keep the grass in check until i can find a suitable replacement.
What would be your recommendation for repairing damage around the bolt holes in the rails typically be?
If you have these skills as you suggest at your disposal then nothing should be too much of a problem for you and you won't have to look for another mower.
In saying that, many people will have to pay for these services and then with all spare parts and sundries required on top it then becomes an over capitalised project that rapidly has interest lost in it, therefore it then ends up in the for sale listings, if you get where I'm coming from.
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
I appreciate all the assistance, that seems like a very simple yet clever way to strengthen the rails, it certainly beats the plate i was intending to use under the engine, alot cleaner finish, i should have a nice bit of steel laying around that i can cut down to match Mr.Jones fix.
Again thank you for your help and will get some photos up once i can complete the repair of the rails.
In relation to the Briggs attached, do you know if they were a 3/4 or 5/8 keyway, not particularly wanting to go and buy a set of callipers just to measure this?
Hi Paulie,
It's quite difficult to judge from a glance. It will take removing the engine from the chassis and separating the clutch assembly from it, and then measuring.
Although - I had the exact same engine on my 20 inch Model 45, and it was 5/8.
All of the (x number of) Model 45's I've owned and worked on with past generation B&S or Kirby/TM have all had 5/8 keyway shaft motors.
I personally don't know the older Briggs models that well to determine if this particular variant was offered with the 3/4 option. But the main thing that makes it more of a question mark is, the clutch half currently fitted with the 2x grub type set screws do come in the 3/4 shaft size option. So the possibility is there.
If it was a clutch half sporting the old captive cotter setup, I'd say it was 99% certainty of being 5/8.
The usual culprits for 3/4 shaft sizing I've come across on Model 45's are Honda powered.
I'd bet London to a brick that the current power plant is a 5/8 shaft unit and the only reason there is a new clutch half fitted is because the original cotter equipped unit had been allowed to run loose for quite some period of time and thus became flogged out, in turn this destroyed the rails and why they have had the repairs done as we see them currently.
I'll be the first to say that the older style Briggs and Rattler engines were the most unbalanced units around and thus this was the start of all SB Twin Rail fatigue problems on the 45. The newer style engines are far more vibration friendly on the Series 2 Chassis and thus I'd strongly recommend that if you were considering a replacement that you would choose one of the newer style sloper designed engines.
The current 3.5Hp Briggs units are pretty good but if you can afford a Honda then go for it.
The current Briggs units are now being sold for around $250, whilist Chonda's (Chinese Hondas) can be had for around the $125 mark delivered to your door.
Horses for courses I guess. Choose your Horse wisely.
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
I haven't owned either, but hear many good things. Honda's usually come with the higher price tag, which you can expect from the brand badge.
The GP160 equivalent (or close to) power wise in the late Briggs range is the 750, and I don't believe it is available here with the 5/8 keyway shaft option. Only 3/4 (keyway), or 5/8 (threaded / pump) - which is no good for us in these applications anyway.
I do highly recommend (and own) the B&S 550 range. They're well priced, efficient, quiet, smooth, easy to work on and in my opinion the perfect power match for the Model 45. Pretty certain there is a 3/4 keyway shaft option available with this model also.
The engine replacement can certainly assist with chassis vibration. Although it's equally (if not more) important to inspect the engine side clutch half, the clutch cone, and main/PTO shaft keyways, and even all of the individual keys. If they are looking pretty worse for wear and key fitment is loose and sloppy, do away with them and replace them. The most expensive parts out of the whole PTO assembly are going to be the main clutch cone and the engine side half. The PTO shaft is pretty cheap, and usually come supplied with keys.
The local briggs dealer i spoke to wants to charge around $300 for a b&s 550. If i can get a new one for $250 i may well just put a B&S on, the only reason i looked at the Honda was it was only an extra $15 from what i was quoted for the B&S.
Will get the motor off this weekend and see what the clutch and keyway conditions are at the very least. I still need to see if i can that muffler off at this stage but i dare say at $250 for a new motor that will reduce vibration i wont be able to get that idea out of my head.
If you can't get a better price than $300, I'd almost be happy to get the Honda at the extra $15. But don't forget you'll need the 3/4 clutch half, so expect another $80-100 on top for that. Potentially the clutch bearing as well if you can't salvage the one out of the existing half- $25 - 40 there.
If and when you do buy a B&S, unless you already have some - don't forget to buy the oil for it - hey BB Wonder if the Honda's come supplied with oil...
I haven't looked at these clutch halves but can't you get somebody to just mill it out to suit the 3/4 shaft, you are only taking 1/16th of an inch out of the wall thickness
I'm not sure if you've had work done at a machine shop as of late, but their prices have outstretched their usefulness. If you had your own mill and also had the expertise then I'd say go for it. I had a Series One 20 inch Model 45 bearing carrier TIG welded as it was cracked when I got the machine and then had the bearing size re-milled out afterwards to perfection and that was $60 at mates rates.
I would most definitely stay with the Briggs replacement as you won't have to mess around with changing any drive train gear and the extra cost involved. The Briggs engines are available in both 5/8 and 3/4 size PTO shafts and are the same costing for either.
Now as far as oil goes, Briggs have organised me a replacement motor as they can see the issue of what's happened.
All they really need to do now is actually clearly label either the packing carton or the engine itself that it requires oil as they've had a few issues as of late with some engines having a full crankcase while others only have around 150ml of assembly oil inside. They admit that a standard of some sort should be sorted out, thus why I got caught out like I did.
I will say that most manufacturers that sell new engines place predominant labels on their product stating "REQUIRES OIL". They do this so as to avoid having to ship engines as DG cargo (Dangerous Goods), so isn't a truckfull of engines all with 150ml of oil inside each one considered DG ???
So in the future "I ain't fallin for no banana in my tailpipe"
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
You're absolutely correct on that score, but I've never asked or needed to as I know someone with a mill, but in saying that you are correct that it's perfectly possible to mill out a 5/8 to a 3/4 size requirement. Now lets see someone do the reverse eh ??
Cheers, BB.
I live a 24 Hour lifestyle, but every now and again I seem to fall asleep, well at least that's what my wife tells me.
To be honest with the price of a new Briggs at $250, if I can find a dealer that will sell me one around that price point i am going to follow BB�s advice as I am happy with getting a new Briggs.
I really am hoping to do the restoration mainly at home with the exception of using a mates workshop for sand blasting the old paint off. I�m sure I could get it Milled but defeats the purpose for me at least if I can get a engine that bolts straight in.
So finally got the muffler to release tonight, installed the new one with no visible damage to the motor thankfully, now I�m having trouble with the motor and getting it running. Painful as she was running well enough over the last month to cut the grass with, bad fuel perhaps. Will not get up to operating rpm and is blowing a little smoke, next task on the weekend seems to be to drain the fuel clean the car I and see if I can get her running again.
