OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Victa Two Stroke Engines Difference between Victa coil MA05556A & MA05599A

Hi Team.
I'm currently trying to get a Victa Powertorque 160cc engine running (possibly a VS160 series 400 or Series 500 2-stroke) and, due to spark issues stemming from a missing spark plug end and boot, I have swapped out the old MA05556A coil with a MA005599A coil from another powertorque motor (obviously and older motor, but still an all-in-one block engine).
The replacement coil I installed was recovered from a seized engine I had picked up in our local bulky goods throw-out and is slightly different to the original, but I now have spark and the engine is running with this MA05599A coil.
The issue I now have is that I can't seem to get the throttle cut-out to work. I'm not sure if this relates to a compatibility issue with the coil, the Ignition Module, Condensor (maybe) or some other connection. I'll have another look in the morning at the cut-out assembly on the carbie, but I didn't touch connections at the ignition module end of the ignition system.
I have attached a photo of the old coil, but the replacement is already installed on the mower, so I am hoping someone may have an idea of any difference between the two coils that may affect proper operation of the mower.
The original coil appears to have a capacitor, or some other electrical component, built-in to coil itself.
Other differences where: -
. The original mounting bolt heads for the coil MA05556A were 11mm compared to 12mm on the MA05599A and smaller in thickness.
. Length the metal contacts protruded through the coil MA05556A are less than replacement MA05599A, but it fitted okay and gapped using a business card.
. Original wiring to the ignition module for this mower was utilised as the wiring from the replacement coil had already been removed.
I tried to use a screw-in type replacement spark plug boot (the orange one shown in the photo), but it didn't want to work. This was the second of this type I tried but, for some unknown reason, both failed to get spark through to the plug, yet there was definitely spark at the end of the lead. Trust me, I can guarantee power was getting to this point. :-)
Thanking you in advance.
Daryl

hi bushy,
if the motor is running , the not stopping wont be a problem with the coil.
it will be more with the throttle adjustment, (the plate below the throttle with the screw in it),
for instance, if the throttle hits the top of the plastic housing before it causes the wires in the back of the
carby to touch then it wont stop.....
or the earth lead is not connected to the coil.
theres not much else it could be.
cheers, pete

Hi Bushy, i have to agree with squizzy, although the other problem may be that one of the 2 wires going back to the coil may have a break in it causing it to not work. The easiest way to test it would be to remove them from the carby housing and keep them separated and pull the motor over, and check for spark. There will obviously be spark as the engine ordinarily starts and runs. Now let the 2 wires make contact with one another and pull engine over, there should be no spark. If this is not the case then troubleshoot as per squizzy's instructions.

On a separate note the MA05556A is an older coil and is used with an externally mounted module. If it were on a VS160, which is a newer 2 stroke it would need to have the ignition module riveted to the block just under the carby. If it had no module then that would explain why it had no spark originally.

The MAO5599A has an inbuilt module and hence does not require the externally mounted module. From my findings i have found 3 different types of wiring "looms" for the MAO5599A:
1)The latest version only has 2 wires that go from the coil terminals directly to the carby, these 2 wires are normally black and grey.
2)the black and brown wire version where the black wire goes directly to the carby but the brown one is grounded to the block where the module would normally be mounted and then goes off to the carby. (I suppose they used to do this for better grounding)
3) and lastly a modified version of the above where one wire grounds directly to the metal part of the coil from the terminal and then the other 2 wires go directly from the terminals to the carby.
Hope this helps you but let us know how you go

Thank you Squizzy and Bigted for your responses.
Problem has been found and solved. Hopefully it will stay solved.
I can confirm that the above coils appear to have interchanged without a problem (on their behalf), so hope this may help someone else who has a coil issue on their machine.
Due to frustration yesterday, and constant issues rising to delay progress in getting the machine running again, I gave it up before going any further with testing thinking it may be an issue with the different coils installed, but that wasn't the case.
I never gave a thought to manually crossing the cut-off wires to see if that was the issue as I had purchased and installed a new rubber boot for the straight connection. I should've checked that it was fully fitted and the cross connection could contact the straight connection when throttle was moved to the Off Position. However, I did check to make sure the wires moved but, unknown to me at the time, the rubber boot wasn't fully pushed into the cam area of the carburettor so, although the wires moved when the throttle was placed in the Off position, the connection was blocked by the larger end of the boot and metal to rubber does not carry or disrupt current. Doh!
This morning, I checked the function manually, as Bigted suggested, and found the spark was cut-off when the wires were joined. Upon further investigation, I pushed the new rubber boot further into the cam area and verified that I could see through both holes for the cross lead to make proper contact.
This took several goes as the damn cam seemed to push the wire back out from inside the cam area and it lost the connection again. Painful having to remove the covers several times to fix again.
The only way to access these wires on the carburettor is to pull the top covers off and remove the carburettor for better access, which is a real pain.
I have provided some more photos of the existing coil and the mower in question.

Rear of coil MA05556A only has two connections, same as MA05599A

Not sure what the brass tab is, but the protrusion of the metal contact out of the coil is small compared to the MA05599A version.

View of the mower looking down over the top cover.

Too hard to get to the cut-off wiring without removing the top cover as it is way under the cover and fuel tank.


Appreciate all your help and advice.
Have a great weekend.
Daryl

Just for your future info the brass tab you mentioned holds the coil to the frame, straighten the tab and the coil slides off

Thank you NormK.
That makes sense, so I gave it a whirl and, with a little encouragement, removed the coil from the frame for something to do and a reminder of how to remove it for future reference. :-)
Have a great day.

Hi Guys,

New to this forum and this topic is of interest as I have an older Victa with a failed MA05599A9 (built in ignition model).

After removing the coil I now have an after market coil and separate ignition, however after wiring it up as per instructions I still have no spark.

Any ideas?

Have been advised to wire it as per the positive diagram below,

Hello there,

I'm hoping a member may shed some light on this.

------------------------
Jack

I'm not sure of this setup but I think the coil clearance to the flywheel is too big, that will stop it from sparking

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Re the coil clearance I set it at first with a business card and then reset to 0.25mm as per the flywheel notes using a filler gauge. I will revisit and have a look.

Relocated Ignition Module (Now sitting under Carby) - http://imgur.com/k4J2K1P

Coil Spark Plug Wire Reading OK - http://imgur.com/6CMZy41

Off Wire Reading OK - http://imgur.com/MPG3Np1

On Wire Reading OK - http://imgur.com/eV6tg5p

Connected positive as ground, then negative. I can feel the charge (tingle) when i hold the spark plug wire but not spark.

Scratches head

A tingle is no good you want a good belt, if you close the coil gap right up you will increase the spark. I use a brass feeler gauge which is probably 10 thou

Hi NormK,

I will double check but I have set it using a 0.25mm (10thou) filler gauge.

When it last started, prior to myself replacing the coil, the mower started, I adjusted the throttle and then it stopped, game over.

Side Note: I was advised that the original coil was in the way out as it was reading 15.03k ohms.

Hi Struggo and welcome to the forum. My guess would be that the coil is actually dead rather than just the built in module. For all the trouble and stuffing about, it would be far easier to replace the coil as an entire unit rather than fitting a module etc. etc.
If you cant get a good used one cheap enough online place a wanted post here on the forum. Depending on where you are in Down Under i'm sure there'l be someone close to you that will have one. I must have at least 10 of them in the shed.
Cheers, Ted

Let me ask a question here as it sounds your referring with built-in electronics. Is this correct?

If so then the Atom or Nova II module will not help as you can't bypass the electronics. In order to use the either these modules you must have a point style ignition coil that does not have a built-in trigger module.

I could wrong as I have never seen any of the Victa coils here.

that module is only for use to convert older points ignition to electronic with original points coil
it wont work with later electronic coils ignition systems

only thing dat module it ment for is removing points

only works with points coil

it wont work on your mower
better just get second had electronic coil to match you mower

Hey Bigted, AVB & Freebird, thanks for the feedback.

So in essence you can use a MA005599A with an earlier model that ran with a MA05556A coil, but not the other way around.

I will hunt around for a MA005599A.

BTW, I'm located in Sydney :-)

Hi, that aftermarket replacement coil (GB) was for engines with points and condenser, like the 125cc & 160cc. The coil was purchased without realizing there was 2 types of coils and got the module as the original had the built-in module.

Steve.

Thanks for the help and feedback all.

Quick summary of my journey to bring to the old girl back to life,

1/ My MA005599A coil died.

2/ Tried to set it up with a new coil and separate ignition module without success (Thanks for you help Steveo)

3/ Sourced a second hand coil with a built in ignition module �MA05697AZ� and she kicked over.

So after 18 years my trusty old Victa 2 Stroke is still kicking.