OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Collectors Corner Rotary Whirlwind Sabre Lawn Mower

Wouldn't beleive it!
Tonight a third Whirlwind was posted on my page! This time a Sabre.
Reminds me of the Qualcast.




Cheers Adam and Jack!

Hi Kye
I have moved this post to its own topic, as I believe we need to
start recording the Sabre in its own right.

There is some evidence that the Sabre was made in 16 inch and 18 inch sizes.
The reference to Market Street refers to LJ Phillip's office, rather than
their factory at Mentone.

One curious thing is that it appears to have a Villiers engine, but with
a Kirby recoil starter. Is that possible and original?
The answer is yes. Here is a 1957 advertisement.

The frustrating thing - that has bugged me for years - is the
styling of the Sabre. It is similar to the Qualcast, but also to
a number of others.

It is clear that it is American lawnmower inspired.
Specifically, I refer to the 1950s Lawnboy:-
[Yes, I looked at the Corvette too!).



The thing is this: look at the following machines...

Masport Rotacut (c1955)


Pye-Tecnico Powermatic (c1958)


Qualcast Lawnspeed (c1958)


The Masport used the Johnson 2-stroke (aka Lawnboy Ironhorse engine).
The Tecnico used the Kirby 2-stroke (licenced Johnson).
The Qualcast used a JAP 2-stroke.

There are differences in the chassis of each make.
I believe Masport, Whirlwind, Tecnico and Qualcast are all
derivatives of the American Lawnboy.

I do not believe this off-set wheel design survived on
AUS or NZ machines past the 1950s. Essentially we didn't
take to that style. That's a good thing, I think.

What is unknown, is whether there was any commercial
association between the AUS and NZ makers, and Lawnboy.
Interesting question I have been wanting to ask for some time...

Thanks again Kye for bringing this mower to our attention.
Any other photos of this machine would be welcome (including underneath).
It is amazing how your Facebook page is revealing so many rare mowers.

Cheers & thanks.
--------------------
Jack

So do I Jack.


So would that be the date? There was a bit of discussion about dates on my post.


You have no idea how much that blew me away! There all so similar, only minor differences. Pretty cool how a New Zealand brand, a British brand, an Australian brand and an American brand all made mowers so similar! Wouldn't surprise me if there was something going on between the 4.


All good Jack! It is amazing me too, every couple of nights we are getting something interesting.

Also at Caboolture I saw an interesting J.A.P. engine, it was the same type as the one on the Qualcast, but it had an alloy base plate, which looked like a section of a Qualcast base! I have his number written down if I do want it.
Do you recon it could have been a store engine? It didn't look cut, it looked cast, but it was the same as the Qualcast. I will hopefully be heading to his place after August as he is local, hope he is enjoying his trip to Alaska!

Cheers Jack! Hope this helps you out!

Kye, I'm reasonably confident that the Sabre was introduced in late 1956
for the 1956-57 season (and beyond).

The first Whirlwind domestic rotary dates to 1955.
In this September, 1956 ad the two machines are side-by-side.
I do not understand the two 18" machines. Why two?

Note Whirlwind claim to be first in Australia with a recoil.
The first model (right) is described as "All-purpose".
Perhaps it was more heavy-duty that the domestic Sabre.



The Sabre was offered in two sizes: 16 & 18.
The 16" had the smaller 3G; the 18 the larger Midget.



As to the first model Whirlwind ... I have seen a photo
of one. Patrick from Vintage Mowers has one in his collection:-



I think we would need to see a photo.

-------------------
Jack

That explains it for me! everyone said there whirlwinds (which must have been 16") were older but the decal just looked newer.
I will have to tell them about this.

Also with the 4 mowers you showed before, the Rover 18" Major is similar to, but not as much as the others. Probably influenced as well, but not as copied as the others.

I will have to get down there and get a picture once he gets back Jack.

Cheers Jack!

Hi Kye
Yes, I do not place the Rover in this specific category.
It is simply a lawnmower influenced by the 'off-set wheel American design'.

---------------------------
I do want to say something in response to your great observation about the
connections between the designs like the Whirlwind Sabre.

To my knowledge, it was Mason & Porter's (Masport) Rotocut that introduced
this Lawnboy chassis to Australasia. This was Masport's first rotary, and
it was introduced for the 1955-56 season.

On the Australian mainland, the first take-up of the design was L.J. Phillips'
Whirlwind Sabre of 1956. I do believe the direct influence for the Sabre was
from Masport (not Lawnboy). I point out that, in the early-mid 1970s, Whirlwind
became ... Masport-Whirlwind, and within a few years, simply Masport (Australia).
My best guess is that a Masport-Phillips arrangement introduced the
Lawnboy design to these shores.

Both Pye-Tecnico and Qualcast were later users of the design.
The Pye-Tecnico machine is interesting in that it has Kirby's first rotary
lawnmower engine - the Kirby 2-stroke GE-A1, a licensed Canadian
Johnson/Ironhorse used by ... Masport. It is the Kirby recoil starter that
appears to be used on the Sabre (fitted with the Villiers). This would mean
that Kirby introduced the lawnmower recoil starter to Australia!

The Qualcast route to this off-set design is probably different in that
these were fully imported machines (in the late-1950s). This suggests
to me a more direct route between UK's Qualcast and the USA's Lawnboy.
I might also add, that Qualcast used the off-set design in their
rotaries way beyond their dated use in this country. Why?

The Off-set Wheel Design
Let's say about half-a-dozen AUS manufacturers experimented with the
offset-wheel design in the 1950s. An obvious question is why this
design preference did not survive to see the next decade?

I have seen someone ask the question: "what was the advantage?"
The better question is, "what was the disadvantage?"

Australia rejected the offset-wheel design because it was too difficult
to accommodate what Australia accepted - the single-point height adjuster.
I think it is a fair statement in saying that Australia led the world in
domestic rotary mower design in the 1960s and 1970s.

The single-point height lever was entirely suited to our conditions,
and much more convenient to use! To have this system on offset-wheel
chassis made no sense at all. Here, we adopted the conventional four-square
base, that easily matched the lever and segment design. Victa had this
from 1960, and all the key players followed suit.

It is that story that makes the Sabre so desirable - a talking point -
because of its most unusual look.

-----------------------
Jack

I agree, the Rover is similar in the rounded alloy base with offset wheels but it doesn't look like a copy (or at least close to being one) like the rest of these. It would have just been influenced.

Finally I know how Whirlwind ended, they became Masport (Australia)!

Both the Gardener and the Rover are hard to move around, you get it on the wrong angle and they stop moving, wouldn't be fun going up a hill. I can see why they didn't last into the 1960s. And like you said it would be hard for height adjustment.

He got the Sabre for $50, great deal if you ask me!

Cheers Jack!

That's very interesting information there ... and it makes sense.
Bargain on the Sabre!

I might add, One of the claimed advantages of the off-set wheel design was that
it prevented 'scalping'. I must say, I have never accepted that argument on
smaller width-of-cut rotaries. And in the USA, where they prefer higher cut lawns,
it made no sense at all.

I might also add that, today, American mowers have largely followed the
Australian tradition: https://www.toro.com/en/homeowner/walk-behind-mowers
[p.s. I love their 'Lawn Striping System].

They have adopted the four-square chassis - but still persevere with
multi-point height adjusters

For me, this makes no sense, since the introduction of power edgers in
general, and specifically, line trimmers.

All very interesting.
-------------------------
Jack

I can't see how it would stop it from scraping the ground?? just another thing they said to sell more I guess.

Don't look anything like the used to, putting the hose into that little port is cool, wouldn't need it if it was just a 2-stroke...

Now that wipper-snippers are as normal as a lawn mower I don't see why you would need your mower to go up to edges.

Cheers Jack!

New pictures are in!

Ad from the NLA collection:

Isn't it interesting that all the ads show women using the Whirlwind.

I hadn't noticed but now that you mention it, I will take more notice.
I have a Pace with a Villiers two stroke motor, and a Whirlwind with a 4 stroke Villiers engine. The pace cost me $50, and the Whirlwind I picked up on the side of the road. I'm happy.

Hello all

Fantastic pictures for the record Kye. Thank you and the owner.
A most unusual colour scheme - red, green and yellow.
Note how it matches up with Gadge's advert colours.

That ad is interesting ... with the 'b' resembling a sabre sword;
the pun on the words 'reap' and 'slash'; and the rhyme.

I'm not sure if feminists would be too happy though. If you can't
teach old dogs new tricks then, with younger ... he's trained her well.

Cheers
Jack

I always sit around relaxing with a bottle of beer while my wife dresses in her beach attire to push our smelly, smoky and noisy 2 stroke Villiers engined mower around our yard. I bet the feminists of today would love it :-)

Interesting to note that I have found the Torque Master 7F engines the noisiest of all the 2 stroke Villiers.

Feminists would never be happy Jack! They would get angry that the woman is doing the work, but then you change it, and then they are angry because you are saying she can't do the job! I had one as a teacher last year, that was an experience and a half...
I do love the ad though, lots of awesome features.

I still need more arts to get my 7F's running Paul, all of them have a few parts missing here and there, the worst part is that bloody switch! Always missing. Hopefully I can get that Pace running soon, would love to mow the lawn with that.

Cheers everyone!

This is not Fantasy Island Paul
Did you notice the two 'empties' on the left?
I suspect this flano-wearing guy is trying to get his dogs to levitate.
Aren't those edges appalling!

It's a controversial issue Kye. I think there is a divide between
reasonable feminists (male & female) and the radical Feminatzi.
Both play their roles in all political movements.

------------------
Jack

I recon it is Jack, some of the Feminatzi's have some crazy ideas...

Hello all
Moderator and NZ Historian Alan M has given us a great record for the
Masport Rotacut ...

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/92269/masport-rotacut.html#Post92269

This is the right time to raise the question:
It is clear that the North American Lawnboy influenced some AUS and
NZ lawnmowers. But was that influence direct or indirect.

Alan (link above) has clearly made the connection between Lawnboy and Masport's Rotacut.
My best guess, now, is that the NZ machine influenced the later AUS designs
that appeared here as Whirlwind Sabres, Pye-Tecnicos, and Qualcast Powa-matics.

--------------------------------
Jack