OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Collectors Corner Identification of Particular Machines Victa 160 Premier????

After missing the Masport I consoled myself finding this one. It was pretty complete: Only thing I notice missing is the air filter + air pipe. Wheels roll fine, much better than Eric.

Alloy base with some damage (small holes, guides missing chunks underneath) can be my strip, fix and repaint project I suspect.

The Victa logo was completely covered with the dirt- needed to use my foot to find it!

However it says 160 Premier on the motor front and I cannot recall (nor google find) a Victa like that? The base has both a side chute and a rear catcher. Is this possibly a corvette base with an engine off something else ???

The impulse starter was under tension, I would it slightly more and it tightened but no ratchet noise noticed? Cleared the space, checked the blades and pulled the trigger...engine turned over and sounded like it had compression!

Any help gratefully accepted, more photos later when I clean it on the weekend.

looks good too . should have a green airfilter yes , same as the bracket thingy you see clamped on lower handles , chrome dress coweling looks to be the same as corvette so just the sticker you can change even the chrome parts look to be ok so for and catcher looks almost mint !

whats the bits in the catcher hope its the side trimmer cover ? hard to find now but i know of a few about the place . the side chute was for cutting upto the edge not really was a chute but i know some will argue good luck with it , they do up sweet maybe just a points clean is all it needs and carby too ..




Psssssst .......... most premiers were some sort of store branded machines , samo samo though , just a different sticker/decal

Cleaning today- trying CT-18. Photos later. Base has several "ventilation holes" in it...sounds like I get to practise with JB-Weld...

Is this likely to be the famed "avocado green?" Some fresh paint in places, esp under 30 yrs 2-stroke+dust coagulation & inside the starter arm.

Original fuel tap + fuel pipe I think. Tank relatively clean (can see shiny metal). Champion spark plug. What appear to be original wheels + covers. Side trimmer cover there, not attached.

Catcher intact, but surface rust in areas, paint thinning.

Patrick,
If you are using CT-18, be very very thorough about rinsing it off, and don't leave it too long.

It's very corrosive to aluminium alloys, if left in contact over time. I've seen this in situations such as riveted sheet joints, or spoke nipple holes on wire wheels. These are 'crannies' that it will seep into, but can't be rinsed out of.

As far as the Masport goes, you now know to not let anything with a complete OHV Honda engine on it get away!
These are a commercial duty engine, and can be easily fitted to a lot of different chassis - Victa is the only exception.

Hi Gadge,

Thanks for the warning about CT-18. But was wondering if you've mixed it up with alloy wheel cleaner/degreaser which is strongly alkaline or CLR which is acidic? My bottle of CT-18 explicitly states "pH neutral". There are also no warning symbols and it pretty well states it's benign. Not even a "use gloves" on the bottle.

I used a very dilute solution, 2 capfuls in approx 5 lt of water. I even used bare hands due to lack of warnings. It actually didn't have much effect on the grime (or my hands)!

Ended up using 1.5 cans of spray degreaser and a pressure washer and still can't get all the grime off...mostly done though and should be thoroughly de-CT-18ed.

Will use CT-18 at a stronger rate and with gloves next time. May even try it through the pressure washer.

Maybe CT-18 ain't what it used to be anymore?!

Cheers,

ID: Should've looked harder, earlier...
I'd seen one or two "Pace premium" images on google. This mower threw me as it looked (to me) original.

So
Pace-labelled (Victa still?) engine + Victa Base = Bitsa. Oh well. Still it looks cool (to me).


More Labels
Cowling- do not race engine

Rear Flap

Side Flap


Engine No- so what do they mean?


Carby
I assume the tickler's missing from an early 3F/3L-type carby? And does this help date the motor?


Fuel Cap Is this correct or are there bits missing? The plastic rectangular 'dispstick ring' is still attached.


Pre- and Post- cleaning
Pre-clean front...ugh. Victa logo complete obscured when I found it.


Post-clean...much better!

Other pre-clean photos
LHS- any info about the muffler, does this help date/place the motor?

RHS

Rear


Underneath


[b]Catcher + catcher base plate + side chute plate


The learning continues...

G'day Patrick,
Nope, I do indeed mean CT-18. BTW, the MSDS for it quotes a pH range OF 7.5-8.5; 7.0 is neutral. So it's not very alkaline, but it's definitely not neutral, despite their claim.

This long-term corrosive characteristic of the stuff is one that's caught out the unwary [particularly trailbike owners] for some years. It's only a serious problem where 'cranny traps' exist, such as the examples I gave. But the corrosion it causes to aluminium is of the nasty 'exfoliation' type. Just what you don't want in the spoke nipple dimples of alloy wheel rims, as it propagates outwards from the spoke hole, and thus weakens the most highly stressed points of the rim first.

The oldest MSDS I could find online was dated 2005 [ http://www.oztrampolines.com.au/pdfs/ct-18msds.pdf ], and the pH spec is the same as the current MSDS on the Chemtech website. So it doesn't look like the formulation has changed in that time.

BTW, the MSDS does advise to 'avoid contact with skin and eyes'...

Yes Gadge I did rethink after I had posted...wondered about a salt effect. I suspect when the water evaporates out and the solution concentrates it can then attack, probably hygroscopic so absorbs water from atmosphere to continue. It did say that it works well when allowed to dry!

I'll remember not to use it on my bike wheels.

Was going to look up the SDS, hadn't got around to it yet. Thank-you.

Was going to experiment with some other cleansers I've had experience with previously. Hence the need for a 'guinea pig' machine. Already wish I had a whopping great ultrasonic bath to chuck things in!

You're all probably scratching your heads at me, I'll add some info on my background at some stage so you all understand where I'm coming from- but it's technical scientific.

All you experiences are invaluable to me and greatly appreciated. It's a great world when we can stop certain 'histories repeating'!

Cheers,

G'day Patrick,
I'd say that the chassis is a 1967-68 Corvette 2, Model 543 if it was a 160cc or 545 if it was a 125cc originally.

The download linked at the top of THIS page is very useful for working these older Victa and Pace models out.

The engine number is from 1967, so it could be the original, just with a Pace front cowl. Or a complete swap from a 1967-68 Pace Premier...
The carby is a 3S, which is correct for the Corvette 2 160cc [but not the Pace Premier], according to the Green Book. Yep, it's missing the tickler. Carby info download is HERE

That fuel cap is missing bits - looks like it was originally a mechanical fuel gauge type, which Victa used for a few years on their top of the line models. Working [or even complete] ones are very rare now. They never did work very well, and were superseded by the optical gauge of the VC series.

Yours looks like it has had some sort of bottle cap shoved into the gauge recess, as a plug.

Hi Gadge,

Thanks once again for the info.

Firstly I'll need to check how much water got in through the open tickler port whilst cleaning.

It's impressive how you pick out the model year from the outline drawings. A large number are much of a muchness to me (still).

However I can see where you're going with the carby. Have the earlier Gregory's Small Engines book so can now see it's a 3S.

Regarding the possible engine vs cowling vs sticker change:
The 3S carby with the taller float bowl extends into a small purpose-designed (even with drain hole) recess in the base. So along with the Victa spec for a 3S on a Victa I think the engine is correct. That leaves either the stickers or the cowling. Given there are two pace stickers on the cowling and several cowling bolts missing I'm going with a cowling swap for now.

Wonder if that means the impulse starter got swapped too?

Thanks again,

Agreed; I reckon that's the most likely scenario.

Could well be, but it isn't possible to say, as they're identical on those two models - P/No 12-236. They both have the chrome dress trim, too.

It should have a second pair of 'lifter' blades fitted to the top side of the blade disc, too. THESE ones.

Thanks again Gadge for the link to the lifter blades.

In the meantime, given the missing snorkel and carby tickler, is it worth trying to start the thing before dismantling, just to see what condition it may be in? I could adapt the other snorkel + filter from Eric I suppose in the meantime.

Any other tests I can run before dismantling? I was going to check
- compression (as per small engine manual- two different resistances per cycle),
- perhaps pull the plug and look inside
- and the exhaust and look
- how to check spark: should I risk the impulse starter (and engine, assume no lubricant left), or can you remove the impulse starter and perhaps rotate the flywhdel by hand enough to generate a spark?
- is it likely to find a spare part tickler- is this something usually lost or does it imply carby tampering? From the amount of grime, it hadnt't been tampered with in a loooong time.

I think I'll pull this one apart before Eric, the engine looks simpler and parts more likely available. Can also look at starting to paint the base...more on that later.


Many thanks to all,

Yep, those checks are all worth doing.
Don't use the impulse starter to check spark with those cowling bolts missing - all too easy to break the engine cup.

Unless the engine has been full of water, there will still be oil in the bearings. The bore is more prone to rust, from damp air, than the bearings.

It might be cheaper to find another 3 series carby with the tickler, and do a swap of bits. It's quite possible for those ticklers to just fall off, if the brass retaining wire breaks due to age and wear.

A seller called 'mowtimepast' on Fleabay currently has a couple of NOS P/No 3-136 'Tickler repair kits' [tho' he calls them a 'victa 18 or rotomo primer'] on sale, but $29 inc post is maybe a little steep...

Patrick, if it is just the tickler missing that is worrying you don't worry about it if you just want to get it started, turn the fuel on and poke a bit of wire down through the hole to push the float down,then worry about it later. To check the spark, pull the plug out, put the wire close to the fins on the head and give the cap a spin with your fingers, it might be enough to throw a spark, otherwise you will need to bolt the cowl back on

Thanks again Gadge and Norm for the tips.

That's what I hoped about the tickler (missing button and pressing on float). In fact I have a dim memory of something similar happening to our Rover's carby when I was a kid and a suspicion I may have been part of problem...

I do wonder sometimes whether my father was just extremely patient or I was his penance for some past great wrongdoing!

Well this should provide you with a good laugh!

On leave this week looking after my daughter (school hols), so I thought I'd have a go at the Premier 160 to see what condition it was in. Not done as much on the mower as I wanted due to other commitments (read:daughter!), but anyway...

I'll ask questions as I go, hope you all don't mind (and do answer )

I think it's a good example of 'don't judge a book by it's cover (nice Pace stickers).

Got the plug outlast week and peered inside, seemed OK. Plug is a rather worn Champion N-21 , covered in black soot- looks about normal actually.

Does the N-21 plug sound right, are they available and what would be the gap? (Small engine manual says: consult the dealer)

Cowl and starter
Intending to get at the carby, first thing was to get the cowl and starter off. First thing I noticed: one missing bolt and two on one side sheared off- actually saw this last week. Not a good start, but anyway three bolts later and here's what I saw. Even by my newbie standards, it's an "Oh, dear" moment. Some queries will precede/follow each pic, please have a look and help me out if you can. Thanks!

Starter drum(?correct?)
- I assume it's not meant to be in this condition, looks extremely worn to me- teeth (I assume?) gone and you can see where something's been rotating in contact with it on the top surface (starter base)?
- And what's the little sector of metal- is it a shield/shroud part from the starter unit itself (pics further down)?


Starter base from underneath
- Again, contact from where the base has touched the drum?
- Contact likely caused, I assume, by collapsed shroud bolts?
- Should there be three 'prongs' (dogs?) extending, also is the broken off part likely the shroud around the outside between the prongs/dogs?


Flywheel
- Basically every flywheel blades seems to be broken- again contact, no doubt, collapsed cowling?
- Contact again can be seen at top of drum(?)?


Cylinder outside
Probably least of my worries, but
I wonder where all the contamination came from, and whether the engine overheated (and was damaged) as a result.


Ignition and compression test
Last thing was to test the spark: I pulled the plug and spun the engine, both by hand and by a rope around the pully. I guess I would have simulated a zip-start speed. Even moved the throttle cable, though I can't see any kill mechanism connected. No spark found, darn.

But it does seem to give compression, so that's help.

Next steps
- Pull the carby
- Pull the exhaust
- 'ave a look inside
- Pull flywheel (get to test my new purchase )
- Look at ignition
- Examine/dismantle carby

Conclusion
So my first-off opinion is whilst it may be fixable it's pretty well a write-off from the start. But no matter, that just makes it great to learn on, doesn't really matter what I do to it!

So I'll probably pull it apart and try and get bits working anyway. Some may even be salvageable. I suppose if the cylinder's good then the flywheel, magneto, carby etc can be replaced/repaired and it can work anyway, perhaps replace starter with something else.

Already a good learning experience!

Cheers,

Yep, that looks right for that engine [north-south orientation 160cc], of that vintage. They are available, but I'd use the equivalent NGK B4ES - better quality, and possibly easier to get from Autobarn, Bursons, Repco etc. Gap 0.025".

Usually called 'starter cup' now. The 'starter drum' was Victa's term in those days though.
Your Q's: Yes x4. It's worn out. You can see why I warned against using an impulse starter with missing cowl bolts...

Yes to all Q's, once again. There should indeed be three pawls/dogs.
More like some neanderthal with a hammer has been at work. That isn't the correct cup for a 2-stroke, BTW - that's a Kirby 4-stroke type. And it doesn't engage the lugs on the top of the flywheel, as the correct one would.
That's a quite normal crud deposit, on Victa cylinder fins. Dirt and fine clippings always tended to build up there.
No ignition cutout switch on these models, so there must be other problems.
All worth doing.
That's the best way to regard it, I'd say - a learning experience!

Thanks Gadge,



My learning appreciates your experience!

Did a bit more today, pulled the carby off totally, exhaust off and had a look inside. Pics to come. To do next is more degreasing/cleaning, pull the flywheel and have a look at the ignition.

The torpedo-type exhaust looks good, feels solid and intact externally so might give it a brush down, lick of rust converter and paint. I assume it's meant to be hollow on the inside? Did shear off the rusted bolt from the fixing ring when trying to remove the nut which was rusted on pretty solidly though.

Had a look inside both the exhaust and carby ports (yesterday) and all looks OK- no major gouges, rings there. But it's actually my first look at an actual used piston/cylinder in-situ!

What I did find was the exhaust port is half-occluded with carbon, the piston will have to travel a considerable distance more (~1cm) to expose the exhaust as a result. I'll have to pull it to dremel/grind the carbon off, a screwdriver's not working, besides I'll damage the piston.

Oh, should the rings be able to move up-and-down in theoir grooves?


Thanks for the info, I had just noticed that the lugs were incorrectly engaged today. But there are three of them and three matching notches so it could have been matched if they'd paid attention. This would also have altered the height of the cup/drum, so Neaderthal is about right. Doesn't bode well for further investigation underneath, does it?


Thanks, NGKs have been a favourite of mine for years too so good to know they exist in this size!

Pics to come later...