OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions on Other Engines Gardeners choice powercut 400 (OHV)

this is totally new territory for me but i recently bought my very first lawnmower, a cheap s/h 4stroke Gardeners Choice powercut400 mower, which i now discover is a chinese hybrid/copy... sometimes marketed as a Sanli lazercut 400... nothing wrong with that, they make millions and surely they cant all break down ?

i initially assumed it would be a piece of cake to get this little baby running again, petrol, new plugs and she'd be away.. not that easy... that was the start of a whole new education, particularly to the demon ethanol based petrol

so after stumbling upon this forum, and the excellent threads, i gather my mower and its OHV engine uses a 'Ruixing' carb, based upon the GXV160 carb

i am in the act of cleaning the carb as this mower has been standing for ages and refuses to fire at all. this forum makes it very clear i need to give the carb a good clean out as a starting point

in my initial search for a carb kit (gaskets etc) i found brand new GXV 160 carbs on ebay for just $19... this appears to be an obvious cheap fix. would this carb do the job ?

as opposed to stripping down and cleaning the old one, although not as satisfying and educational as getting hands-on and breathing new life into the old one...

also i havent been able to find is the carb insulation block and manifold gaskets gaskets that i'll need to replace the old ones ? any ideas where to look ?

thanks in advance

Hi insydney, welcome to Outdoorking.

I don't know what brand of carburetor you've found for sale on ebay. I do know that some of the copy-carburetors made in China for the GXV160 and its copies seem to be of quite decent quality, and their parts are interchangeable with the Keihin that Honda uses.

If you want to get your mower working quickly, you might find it worthwhile to buy a copy-carburetor, and also clean the original one as a spare. It is quite unlikely that you will need to replace the insulation block: those are not normally affected by changing carburetors and gaskets, as long as you recognise that they are plastic parts and treat them accordingly. The insulators and its gaskets are interchangeable with Honda ones, and I use Honda ones myself just because they are good quality and easy to get from my local dealer. However you may be able to get copy ones cheaper on ebay. Just by gaskets for a GXV160, don't expect to find someone selling parts for your particular copy-engine. You may not need to replace the insulator gaskets: some of them stick, and therefore have their flat surfaces torn when you remove them, and others don't stick, and can be reused after careful inspection.

Please come back to this thread and keep us posted on your repairs. We are happy to help.

many thanks for the reply 'grumpy'
here are 2 links to the carbs i found on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/141489910566?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-PC-Law...DefaultDomain_15&hash=item5b0dd4639c

i am sure you have seen these before. the cost is low but i assume you have to get gaskets in addition as well on top of that

the downside is the inevitable 3-4 weeks postage so i may opt to clean the original and see how that goes, i am sure these copies will still be there in a week or so
the original gaskets could be used again but if i can find any locally i'll replace them.
one thing i noticed on the existing carb was a lack of O'ring between the carb body and float bowl, i assume there should be one ?
i guess it has been tinkered with before and omitted for some reason

one other Q i have: is, is there a trick to disconnecting the linkages ?
the carb is mounted on 2 studs, as opposed to the bolts on other examples on youtube, so you dont have the benefit of releasing the carb and manipulating/rotating it to assist disconnecting the linkages. as the plastic parts appear fairly fragile so i dont want to snap them off by forcing them

First, the ebay carburetors. The first one you cited, I would not buy, simply because the face of the carburetor body which has to clamp against the insulator (with a thin gasket in between) has been machined with a badly set up roughing cutter, and never finished. A manufacturer who would put a product like that up for sale might do anything, and is best avoided. The second one you cited looks similar to a Keihin such as Honda might use, but the seller asserts that it can be used on GXV120, GXV140, and GXV160, despite there being relevant differences from the original carburetors in the case of the GXV140 (unlike the GXV120 and GXV160, the 140 does not have an integral fuel on-off tap on the carburetor, but this one has such a tap). One of his illustrations shows a long choke lever arm supplied as a bonus, but I suspect the arm is actually only used on the horizontal crankshaft engines. So, one of the carburetors (the slightly cheaper one) is badly made, and the other is being sold by someone who may not know what he is talking about, or alternatively may have a loose grip on the truth. Neither of these issues would keep me from buying and using the carburetor if I didn't have a choice, but in your situation I'd begin by running through the standard carburetor cleaning and checking procedure on the carburetor you already have. If you find replaceable parts missing or damaged, you might try looking for overhaul kits on ebay, or sending a PM to roebuck.

I suggest that before you do anything else, you have a look at this video, which shows you how to clean your carburetor "the Honda way":

[video][/video]

many thanks grumpy, not much escapes you so i much appreciate your wealth of knowledge
yep i have already watched that clip on youtube and that part of it seems pretty clear to me , but and there's always a but, what isnt clear to me and not in that clip is how you disconnect the gxv linkages, to the throttle and choke whilst the carb is still on the studs ?
whilst on the studs there is no way to incline/rotate the carb to allow the bent rods to unclip from the carb itself, and i'd hate to over 'coerce' them fracturing any of the plastic parts they attach to....
is there some trick you use to unclip these rods and the associated spring ?

further to my last post i found this other clip on youtube which deals with a GX160 carb dis-assembly and throws more light on the linkage issue:
[video][/video]



it appears you just pop it upwards? ok i'll give that a go and pray nothing snaps

You need to do some careful looking before you pull hard on anything in that linkage, insydney.


In that picture you see on the left, a GXV120 carburetor and on the right, a GXV140 one. Note that the one on the left has a fuel tap, the one on the right does not. Otherwise they are much the same.



In this picture on the top left you see the throttle link connection (the black plastic bell crank sticking upward from the top of the carburetor). In this side view, you can see that the connecting link passes through the upper part of the crank, and pushes downward. The link cannot normally move upwards out of position accidentally, because of the projections on that upper part of the bellcrank.



In this picture you can see that there is a slot between the projections at the top of that black plastic bellcrank so that there is only one rotational position in which the connecting link can move upward, and escape from the bellcrank. If you try to move the link upward in any other position, and apply force, you'll just break the plastic bellcrank, which is irreplaceable. One new carburetor required.

The choke bellcrank does not need this tricky rotational position complexity. The wire link is bent 90 degrees after it passes through the bellcrank so it can't come out while the carburetor is installed. However with some ingenious manoeuvering you can slide the carburetor outward on the studs and wriggle it around to unhook the choke link. Many people with less dexterity bend the link a bit to remove and reinstall it, then straighten the link afterward if they have bent it.

Get hold of Sanli....they carry spare carbs and gaskets. Watch the valve clearances, they are crucial for easy starting and running.

cheers grumpy great pics... the throttle link popped out easily however the choke is more reluctant i'll fiddle a while longer , the chinese are famous for their puzzles, this is one more to add to the list !

btw i guess this shouldnt be in the frames section, my apologies, couldnt find a dedicated sanli section. seems they deserve one with their reputation for being unreliable lol

With the choke, you may be surprised with how far you can slide the carburetor off the studs with the throttle link disconnected and the choke adjusted in the right direction.

I'll move this thread to an engine forum.

i'll find out just how far i can slide it off, as said before i was hesitant to push it too far in case bits of black plastic flew everywhere

i'll let you know the result, fingers crossed

No use of force is required, it is just a matter of sliding the carburetor along the studs, gently. I bent the choke link slightly the first few times I did it (just curving it upward a bit, so it unhooked from the bellcrank more easily). I eventually found I could wriggle it off without actually bending the link, after doing the job a number of times.

aaah well i persevered with the wriggling to no avail so i resorted to a little more persuasion, pliers to bend the choke lever aiding release of the link.
i also realised you have to totally drop the frame to allow the carb to clear it..
so far so good
today i'll get carb cleaner and some suitable wire to clean the jets...

sadly i have just moved house (to a house with a lawn) and threw out masses of my 'useful' stuff from my previous garage after much derision from friends for collecting 'rubbish'... lol which i knew would be 'handy' one day, like bits of wire, i am now working hard to replace those valuable resources

I don't think bits of wire are a solution to your jet-cleaning problem. You will see in the video I recommended that Honda recommends the use of oxy torch tip cleaners of the correct diameter, but unfortunately you need one of only 0.3 mm diameter for the idle jet, and I don't know of any place to buy them that small. The usual solution is to by a set of jet drill bits, such as these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Metric-I...DefaultDomain_15&hash=item51ce144fdf

Those cover all of the sizes needed. A set of oxy torch tip cleaners may cover everything except the idle jet, and is much cheaper:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/13pce-Ox...DefaultDomain_15&hash=item5b0ee8435c

You should be able to get tip cleaners in your nearest welding supplies shop, and you may get them from a good hardware store.

an oxytorch cleaner is what i'll get this arvo hopefully
i remember using a thing to thread needles that was ultra fine.. that may do the trick for the idle jet if i cut it down

Remember, genuine Honda idle jets are just moulded plastic, so if you push anything through them with any vigour, you'll enlarge them and make the idle mixture rich. Chonda idle jets, fortunately, usually have a brass bush pressed into the plastic, so they aren't nearly so delicate.

grumpy is there a dedicated section somewhere on here that covers sanli blade replacement ?
whilst i have the oil and petrol out of mine i will turn it over and replace one of the blades that has been bent... however the blade retaining bolts on this mower dont have a hey keyed head to take an allen key, unlike the victa blades, so its hard to undo as the bolt as the countersunk head just rotates with no way to lock it and completely undo it.
i guess a spot weld to the bolt/blade would do it as they are both going to be replaced, but i don't have a welder

btw i forget to say the carb cleaning went without a hitch, after the linkage was removed, but before i start her up i want to replace 2 cutting blades whilst the oil and petrol is empty

i actually used a fine toothbrush i had lying around, the individual bristles are very fine, to '
stipple' in and out of the jet holes and it did the trick well, with no risk of damaging enlarging the holes at all...

Hi Insydney, In relation to your blades, remove the blade carrier and use a 1mm thick cutoff wheel on a small grinder. Just cut the nuts off from the top down, one cut to the left of the thread and one to the right, the rest of the nut will then just fall away from the bolt.

thanks bigted, that sounds like the best way...

but aaaagh!... my angle grinder was one of the tools that got dumped in my recent house move following pestering to get rid of some of my "crap" in the shed ok bunnings here i come lol

the mower took the back seat for a cpl of weeks but earlier today i decided to see if the carb cleaning had helped... so i gave the cord a tug and yep it fired up. that's a big improvement as it hasn't run before, BUT it only ran for about 2 secs and then stopped... this remains the situation, it will fire up for a cpl of secs ( and i mean 2/3 secs) then dies
i have:
cleaned the carb, jet's main and pilot
drained the petrol tank, used new fuel, and cleaned the fuel filter
changed the spark plug
changed the air filter

sounds like fuel starvation, but i have checked all the obvious things, it has me beat... any ideas anyone ?

You made one big mistake by cleaning the fuel filter, just replace it and see what happens.

well there is fuel flowing to the carb bowl, when the drain plug is undone it streams out so i don't think that is an issue, but i'll change it anyway

You can easily verify the problem by removing the float bowl, putting a cup under the carburetor, and turning on the fuel. If it just drips out from the needle-and-seat, rather than running in a decent stream, you have a blockage. Once you know that, you can satisfy yourself about the source by eliminating one component at a time until you find one that makes a big difference. Depending on the type of filter, it may be that, or it may be a chunk of crud that moves around in the hose. Whatever it is, once you've made the flow test, it is pretty easy to identify it specifically.

that was one of the first things i did, my first thought was maybe the float was being held up, in the closed position, by the bowl after i had re-assembled it so i popped the bowl off and checked the flow by raising the float up and down. there

is no problem with the petrol flow as there is a constant stream...
it always runs for the same short period before dying, a few seconds, to me the nature of the run/stop time suggests it's a fuel issue, but i have checked the usual causes and nothing is obviously wrong. which s why i posted in case there was some magical mower thing but i am just being optimistic

See if you can keep it running, or at least keep it running longer, by partly or completely closing the choke. That would identify it as a fuel issue. If it makes no difference, the next thing to try would be an in-line spark tester, so you can monitor the spark while it is misbehaving.

each time i have tried to start it i have had the throttle lever fully extended so i think the choke is fully on ?

i was thinking this was the approved starting procedure ? particularly in this cooler weather

is there actually an ignition cutout when the throttle lever is closed ?

Normally the speed control lever closes the choke at the maximum speed end of its movement, and shuts off the ignition at the other end of its movement.

If the choke is closed completely, the engine will stop after just a few seconds running anyway, due to being grossly over-rich. Most likely there will be some black smoke if this happens. It won't happen as easily on a genuine Honda because they either have a small cut-out in the choke plate, or a feature in the choke linkage, to prevent it, but with a chonda the choke linkage and choke plate are not necessarily as well developed. I suggest you see if you can start it with the choke not fully closed.

i pulled the carb off and cleaned the jets again... and after a few big tugs she started and this time ran considerably better !!
i think my initial clean helped but obviously didnt do a complete job..
however although it was running better it wouldnt accelerate and appeared to be overchoked. as a test i removed the air filter cover and it immediately increased speed, so now it appears a new airfilter is needed, although before i do that i'll check that i haven't disturbed the choke cable in case i have caused it to fully open after all the latest manhandling of the choke mechanism whilst removing the carb'... that's for tomorrow