OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions on Other Engines Gardeners choice powercut 400 (OHV)

thanks bigted, that sounds like the best way...

but aaaagh!... my angle grinder was one of the tools that got dumped in my recent house move following pestering to get rid of some of my "crap" in the shed ok bunnings here i come lol

the mower took the back seat for a cpl of weeks but earlier today i decided to see if the carb cleaning had helped... so i gave the cord a tug and yep it fired up. that's a big improvement as it hasn't run before, BUT it only ran for about 2 secs and then stopped... this remains the situation, it will fire up for a cpl of secs ( and i mean 2/3 secs) then dies
i have:
cleaned the carb, jet's main and pilot
drained the petrol tank, used new fuel, and cleaned the fuel filter
changed the spark plug
changed the air filter

sounds like fuel starvation, but i have checked all the obvious things, it has me beat... any ideas anyone ?

You made one big mistake by cleaning the fuel filter, just replace it and see what happens.

well there is fuel flowing to the carb bowl, when the drain plug is undone it streams out so i don't think that is an issue, but i'll change it anyway

You can easily verify the problem by removing the float bowl, putting a cup under the carburetor, and turning on the fuel. If it just drips out from the needle-and-seat, rather than running in a decent stream, you have a blockage. Once you know that, you can satisfy yourself about the source by eliminating one component at a time until you find one that makes a big difference. Depending on the type of filter, it may be that, or it may be a chunk of crud that moves around in the hose. Whatever it is, once you've made the flow test, it is pretty easy to identify it specifically.

that was one of the first things i did, my first thought was maybe the float was being held up, in the closed position, by the bowl after i had re-assembled it so i popped the bowl off and checked the flow by raising the float up and down. there

is no problem with the petrol flow as there is a constant stream...
it always runs for the same short period before dying, a few seconds, to me the nature of the run/stop time suggests it's a fuel issue, but i have checked the usual causes and nothing is obviously wrong. which s why i posted in case there was some magical mower thing but i am just being optimistic

See if you can keep it running, or at least keep it running longer, by partly or completely closing the choke. That would identify it as a fuel issue. If it makes no difference, the next thing to try would be an in-line spark tester, so you can monitor the spark while it is misbehaving.

each time i have tried to start it i have had the throttle lever fully extended so i think the choke is fully on ?

i was thinking this was the approved starting procedure ? particularly in this cooler weather

is there actually an ignition cutout when the throttle lever is closed ?

Normally the speed control lever closes the choke at the maximum speed end of its movement, and shuts off the ignition at the other end of its movement.

If the choke is closed completely, the engine will stop after just a few seconds running anyway, due to being grossly over-rich. Most likely there will be some black smoke if this happens. It won't happen as easily on a genuine Honda because they either have a small cut-out in the choke plate, or a feature in the choke linkage, to prevent it, but with a chonda the choke linkage and choke plate are not necessarily as well developed. I suggest you see if you can start it with the choke not fully closed.

i pulled the carb off and cleaned the jets again... and after a few big tugs she started and this time ran considerably better !!
i think my initial clean helped but obviously didnt do a complete job..
however although it was running better it wouldnt accelerate and appeared to be overchoked. as a test i removed the air filter cover and it immediately increased speed, so now it appears a new airfilter is needed, although before i do that i'll check that i haven't disturbed the choke cable in case i have caused it to fully open after all the latest manhandling of the choke mechanism whilst removing the carb'... that's for tomorrow

Well done mate.

Been keeping an eye on this thread - Ive just finished stripping down one of these engines. Just logged in to offer a replacement carb for you (I have several).

If youre thinking of getting into fixing up mowers remember:

Keep It Simple!

Fix the easiest problems first - 90% of the problems I fix on a daily basis are carby blockages or just old fuel.

If the engine wont rev or surges (revs up then down) in your case now I would strongly suspect just a blocked air filter. They have a foam pre filter on them try cleaning out that first (I just wash them in the old petrol I drain from the tank) and smack the paper filter on the ground to loosen up the crap (If you have an air compressor handy give it a good blow out), dry the pre filter, reinstall and see what difference that makes - I'm positive that'll fix your engine. The Air filter doesn't need to be changed EVERY service but does need to be cleaned out thoroughly.

Good luck with the mower!

Pete

I think the need to clean the carburetor a second time, suggests you did not take that Honda video seriously enough insydney. It's a bit like repairing a mechanical clock: rather routine if you do it the right way, and one disaster after another if you don't.

It is easy to miss the foam prefilter that Honda air cleaners nearly always have. If you look after the prefilter, the paper filter is unlikely to need much attention unless the engine has run for a long time with smoky exhaust. That blue smoke contains a great deal of liquid oil, and the paper filter filters it out a lot more effectively than the prefilter does, so the result is a clogged paper filter. When they contain dust, Honda endorses tapping the filter element on a hard surface, or blowing it out with very low air pressure from the inside outward, but of course that won't help with oily paper. I've been known to wash an oil-soaked Honda paper filter in petrol several times in succession, to remove oil, and it has worked, but in reality this operation is as likely to destroy the element as to clean it. So, the acid test is, does the paper filter look dry and completely clean (normally, either white or pink colour)? If it looks blackish after blowing it out, the odds of saving the filter element are not good.

In repairing engines, the best advantage you can have is experience. It sounds to me as if you have been learning rapidly from this project, and pretty much enjoying it, so all is going well.

it was completely my own stupidity and desire to get it done quickly... and as they say "more haste less speed"
i didnt consider the lower retaining part of the main jet actually had a central hole, and took more care cleaning the other part of the jet (the long part with about 15 holes) that explains why after a few mins enough petrol managed to pass through, but not continually. now i have cleaned it properly all is well ;0

to answer your Q re' the airfilter, to be honest it doesnt look too bad, definitely not blue/black or oil soaked. thats why i was wondering if i had bent the choke lever a little whilst coaxing it off last time.
tomorrow if i get time i'll knock it out to see if anything shakes loose...

What you are calling the lower part of the main jet (the part with the thread on the outside, and the screwdriver slot in the bottom) is actually the main jet. The long tube that goes directly above it, with the multitude of holes around the outside, is conventionally called the emulsion tube or emulsifier, though Americans (and Honda) tend to call it the nozzle. So, you had cleaned the emulsifier but not the main jet. You may still not have cleaned the idle jet, a black plastic object which slides down vertically into place just to the right of the idle mixture adjustment (pilot screw, in Honda-speak) and directly below the idle speed screw. The plastic idle jet has to be handled delicately, and the metering hole in the bottom of it is only 0.3 mm (12 thousandths of an inch) in diameter, so you need a fairly special object to clean it. If your engine idles perfectly it may be safer to leave it alone.

If the air filter is dry, and is not caked with dirt on the outside, it is probably good to go. Tapping it on the bench to knock loose dirt out will do no harm, but in general that method only removes caked dirt.

yes it was the main jet i failed to clean properly the first time, i had concentrated on the emulsifier.
i steered clear of the idle jet this time as it sounded very delicate thats on the to-do list

the airfilter looks ok, definitely not caked up with crap, so i will tap it out and try it again, results to follow

Thanks for the report, insydney. Please check that the choke is closing completely, take a look at the spark plug, and inspect the state of the engine oil. Note that the oil should stay clean for years (Honda says change it every 100 hours' use) on that engine, unless the piston rings are worn, but it seems that chonda users are even worse than Briggs users for failing to change it when it's dirty. It does not have an oil filter, and the engine will wear rapidly and severely running with dirty oil.

well without the filter it runs quie well, although erratic
with the filter and the filter cover in place it just dies, as soon as i lift the cover it improves immediately. so it looks as if the filter is stuffed after all

the choke moves from stop to stop so it appears to be ok although i'll remove the air filter body later so i can see down the throat and confirm that

i changed the oil when i first got it and it was pretty dark but i didnt take particular notice at the time
it has a new plug which was the first thing i replaced using an NGK BP6RES which is what it was running when i acquired it

it is not burning oil from the look of the exhaust,

can you suggest a good threads you can recommend on here to:
1. show how to tune this particular engine ?
and
2. that cover checking valve clearances ?

cheers grumpy you're a genius

If it makes a noticeable difference when you remove the air filter cover, the filter is badly obstructed and needs to be serviced, which may well mean replacement in the case of a chonda. However most properly serviced chondas run as well as Hondas, which means start first pull and never miss a shot, ever. (They do sound rather inferior to Hondas due to oddball muffler design, but they don't misfire.) Hence you still have problems to find and fix.

I think the chondas called 40, 400 and 4000 are all copies of the GXV120, which is advertised as 4 hp. You can learn quite a lot about them from these threads:

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...p;Words=gxv120&Search=true#Post53596

https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=58437&page=2

With regard to tuning the engine, the best procedure for most adjustments is to follow the Honda owner manual, here:
http://engines.honda.com/parts-and-support/owners-manuals/gxv120

However valve clearance is not covered in the owner manual. Here is the page from the workshop manual: