OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions On Cox Ride On Mower Frames Cox Stockman. Needs work and I need advice

OK. I bought an 8 yo (I was told) Cox Stockman ride on mower. There is no other ID that I can find. Its clock says 5000+ hours (which speaks well of the machine) It was cheap and it needs a lot of work. I did this because I hoped to get one job out of it as a thrasher, then do it up and know exactlky what I have got when I am finished.

From what I can see from the Cox site it's a 4000 Live Drive. I cannot find an engine number either where it was suggested by the forum (near intake manifold) or elsewhere. The engine is a BnS 16.5 hp.

It starts with about 1/2 second of starter, even from dead cold, there is no smoke and it seems to be in very good nick. That's the good part.

OK.

(1) There is no chain tensioner. There are two idlers that swing: one in front of the chain drive and one behind and higher up. There is another arm that has a spindle, but no idler, just in front of and below the rear swing idler. The last one is fixed in place. I cannot see how an idler can be kept on this last spindle, as there is no thread to take a nut, no hole for a bolt and not for a split pin etc. The sprockets and chain are im surprisingly good order: chain fairly stiff and sprockets with no undercut or tip wear. They may of course have been replaced at some time.

The two swinging idlers have little holes in their arms: two each. Pulling them together does tension the chain and I suppose something could be mounted there, but I am not sure. The chain falls off if the mower goes on a sideways slope.

(2) The Live drive is in a bad way. I am assuming it's a conical friction drive thingy. It makes a nasty moaning noise at low to moderate pedal pressure and strains to give any power, only taking up properly at full speed, whereupon the mower shoots away and is pretty useless for cutting. Can this be adjusted, repaired or must it be replaced? This may be the killer if costs thousands.

(3) I can't get the wheel off to work on the chain drive. I realised it's a conical bushing and tried belting the nut to free it, but no go. Is a little judicious heat acceptable? I have sweated other stuff off conical axles OK, but I just thought I would check.

(4) To do major work on the machine, is draining it and flipping on its side the way to go. The Live Drive, however I need to do it, is going to need a major teardown as far as I can see.

(5) The exhaust just shoots out in front of the left hand front wheel. Is that correct? Seems a bit risky in long grass.

OK. That'll do for now...until I delve in and find what else.

Greatly appreciate any help

Nick

First, the Model Number for your mower is A16314E, and the specific identification if it has 32" cut with side discharge, is CS4L16B32. If it has 38" cut with side discharge, it is a CS4L16B38. As far as I can tell, Outdoorking does not have any information on either of them. It is possible that Bruce has some and can upload it. However you can download the owner manual and Illustrated Parts List here:
http://www.coxmowers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/A16314E-Stockman-4000-Live-Axle.pdf

That seems to answer a number of your questions. Note also there
is some general information on Cox maintenance here:
http://www.coxmowers.com.au/?page_id=1308

According to the Cox site, your mower has the standard Cox conical variable ratio drive. You can get some information on its care and feedling from this thread:
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=58315#Post58315

Thanks very much for that. That makes life a lot easier. I will check out the machine and look at the manuals

Nick

Well I have to say that my experience with Cox's staff has left me feeling very likely to get Cox stuff again should the occasion arise. The spares person knew all about the drive and told me how to have a go at repairing/adjusting it. I was also amazxed at how darn simple the drive system is to get aqt and adjust, although it does not work quite as I had imagined. It seems to work on just increasing friction, whereas I thought the cone would actually travel in and out sloping plate to alter the gearing. However it obviously works, as Cox have used it for years.

The models you gave me are for newer machines than this by far. It's not even a 4000 after all, but an 800, series 2. So now I have no idea how old the poor thing is. Cox are emailing a manual for this actual model.

Nick

Briggs engines don't have a single 'engine number' as such, since the 1960's.

They have a group of three; the Model, Type and Code numbers. None of these is a 'serial number', such as on a car engine, by the way.

Their larger engines have these numbers in a few different locations, depending on the exact engine type [out of horizontal/vertical crankshaft, side/overhead valve, and single/twin cylinder]. These are usually different to the smaller engines.

Large overhead valve singles have them either stamped into the top of the valve rocker cover, or on a plate attached to the top of the cowling. Side valve vertical shaft singles usually use the cowling just above the spark plug.

Check those locations first.

Thanks for the update, Nick. Well at least it is a Stockman, even if not a 4000. Is this the correct manual?
http://www.coxmowers.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/17-8002G-8004F-8004K-Stockman-Series-2.pdf

I have only heard good reports on the Cox staff previously, so your comments fit in well with the others.

Thanks Gadge! I will have a bit of a look around, although at the moment it's all about the transmnission and final drive, really. As I say the motor was serviecd and starts like a bought one.

Yeah not a 4000 and no way 8 YO! More like 18. However it turns out that the troubles are minor and the wqorst thing may be a $130 clutch driver cone. The drive clutches are sup[posed to be no more than one shop rule's thickness from the cone and they must be 1/2"! Am going to deglaze and adjust the clitch plates and cone and see what happens.

The chain adjuster is just a spring....I may even have lost it working here, with lots of large gumnuts (marrti "honky nuts") to jam up the works. If it happens again I will have to create a guard. That means I will definiteky have to get that )*&(@W*& wheel off.

Nick

With regard to removing the rear wheel, Cox's FAQ answer may help:

"How do I get the front and rear wheels off my mower?
Front Wheel
Remove hub cap using multi grips, jack up machine and remove the stub axle nut using 30mm or 1 3/16� socket spanner or remove the steering tie rod bolt and split pin or circlip on the stub axle and allow the wheel assembly to drop out.

Rear Wheel
Using a 24mm or 15/16 socket spanner, remove the rear axle nut and washer. Spray the axle both sides of the wheel hub with CRC or similar. Replace the nut and leave flush with the end of the axle. With the mower still on the ground use a suitable solid drift (brass, aluminium, hard wood) against the axle and nut, and with two or three solid hits with a large hammer the wheel hub should break free from the taper on the axle. Jack the machine up to remove wheel. When replacing wheel hub, grease the axle before installing, keeping grease clear of axle taper. Tighten axle nut firmly and re check for tightness after 5 to 10 hours of operation.

Note: If possible, pump up a flat tyre before trying to remove a rear wheel.

The wheels were designed to allow the tyres to be removed without removing the wheel. Jack machine up and break the tyre bead away from both sides of the rim, squeeze the tyre sides together and push down into well of rim and peel out over the bottom edge."

This at least confirms that there is no witchcraft involved, you have to pull the hub off that taper it is probably rusted onto. The kind of rough treatment with a hammer Cox recommends risks destroying the axle bearings if the hub is well rusted on - but note that if you do it the Cox way, the whole weight of the wheel and tyre, plus the tyre's adhesion to the concrete driveway, acts across the joint you are trying to separate when you hit the end of the axle with the biggest hammer you've got. If that inertia-based process doesn't work your parts are probably pretty well rusted on. If you have some experience with using a gas torch safely and controlling the temperatures various parts reach, some judicious heating of the hub but not the axle, in conjunction with a gear puller, is likely to help a lot. Sometimes people heat and cool the part a number of times, to enable the thermal expansion of the hub only, to gradually break the rust bonds. Personally, I'd work at getting the penetrant into the joint after the heating and cooling cycles.

In the end I had to heat it. AFAIK the only way to get a wheel off an axle that is tapered is to belt it but using a drift and hammer not just the hammer...less effective but safer on the gear. Spraying with penetrating stuff did not help, but heat did. Actually heat is very effective here, because I am pretty sure that the wheel itself is Al and therefore will expand even more than steel. On the other hand Al is notorious for seizing. AFAICS a bearing puller would be risky here, and distortion of the wheels could easily result. In the end I used a wedge _inside_ the wheel between the boss and the axle mount.

JUst wanted to add that the third "idler wheel axxle" that I mentioned has nothing to do with the chain. It's the "handbrake"...which just drops into a tooth on the sprocket. Admirably primitive and simple

In a ring-on-a-shaft situation, when you apply heat the outside component expands more than the inner one even if you heat them both to the same temperature and they are made from the same material. The reason is that the increase of diameter of the inner component is proportional to the material's bulk coefficient of thermal expansion, and the increase of diameter of the outer component is proportional to the material's linear coefficient of thermal expansion, which is always greater. If you want to convince yourself of this, just find or make a steel ball, and a steel ring which very nearly drops over the outside of the ball but not quite. Put them both in an oven with a glass panel in the door, and heat them. When they get hot, the ring will drop over the ball onto the oven shelf they are both standing on. That used to be a demonstration of the principle involved, used in school science lessons.

Of course in practice you apply the torch only to the outer component anyway, so the difference in expansion is even greater.

Please keep us posted on this project Nick, if possible with pictures. A lot of members are interested in bringing old ride-ons back to life, so this will be useful for the archives.