OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions on Greenfield Ride On Mower Frames Re: Greenfield Ride-On - Electrical Wiring

I have searched on here and found a bit of advice but am in need of some assistance please!

Cut a long story short-

My 2007 Greenfield 15.5hp 32 Fastcut was imported to the UK a few years back and left to sit in long grass for about 5 years so everything got seized/rusty.

When I got it running there was a scuffing sound (on tickover) coming from the 12" drive plates under the seat. Because of this "neutral" was near impossible to get. It was either shuddering forwards or backwards on tickover. Also the chain does not run straight/true/misaligned, so I thought some TLC would be good!

Greenfield told me "the bearings on the clutch shaft can be loosened and the shaft tapped sideways to align the chain and then retightened. Also the bearings on the axle can be loosened and also moved sideways slightly."

So having had the axle apart previously and seeing there is no room for adjustment down below due to the spacer behind the chain sprocket on the axle, the axle will not go any further in the direction i want it to, I thought I would remove the clutch assy, take it all apart and see what was causing the scuffing sound and see if I could adjust anything up top.


1st Question- How do remove the chain drive sprocket!!

It is on a woodruff key, I removed the 13mm bolt and washers, soaked it over night in penetrating fluid, got a 3 legged puller on it, no chance, warmed it with a torch (not too much as the bearing is close to it) got a 3 legged puller on it, no, it just will not budge!! Stuck tight.

So, I turned my attention to taking the clutch apart from the other side to check the cork lining (my Greenfield has only done 69 hours work) and they are fine, the nuts were tight as tight can be, springs were good, there was a black grease on the shaft, I would say the scuffing sound was from maybe swelling of the cork from years of sat around in the damp? Plus, the faces are not exactly machined dead flat? So I put a shim (from an MTD axle) on the side I could get at to give it a bit more clearance on the forward side (Right hand side).

Once reassembled it ticks over nicely with a bit more freeplay in the foot pedal before drive is taken up, I took it for a run and doesn't slip, but will keep an eye on it, maybe try a thinner shim at a later date, but I do need to take the sprocket off as that and the bearing behind it are stuck to the shaft (even with the tiny Grub screws removed).


My next question is-

What is the maximum wattage bulbs that a Briggs & Stratton 15.5hp Intek can run in the headlights? Or does it take the power from the battery, not from under the flywheel like the side valve Briggs?

Mine was built without lights, but I fancy having them, Greenfield say they are NLA but they were simply reverse lights from a ute/truck?

So, looking at photos of Greenfields for sale on eBay.aus I have a good idea of how they now fit and ordered some universal reverse lights from eBay.uk, just a case of finish making the bracket and heat shield and wiring it in, but what wattage bulbs do I fit? 5w? 10w? 21w?

I must just say that Greenfield service is brilliant, I emailed them needing an ignition key (mine came without one) and also needing a charging diode pack as mine had been filled with water over the years (hung in the loom upside down) and corroded, after its first run for many years it must have shorted out and made the hour meter run for almost a whole day so it is now reading 91 hours when it should only read 70 (Grrrrrr)

They said they would send it free of charge to me!!

So today I received the key, and a complete charging harness!!

Result!

Video of its first test cut the other week along with its other stable-mate (1988 MTD Lawnflite 504) which as you can see is just so slow compared with the new yellow beastie!



So, two bits of advice please, removing the drive sprocket, and bulb wattage

Hi Iceman,

First, here is the relevant page from the Illustrated Parts List, for your clutch shaft and drive axle:


Are you trying to remove the sprocket, Item 24, from the clutch shaft?

Have you removed all of the items on the outboard side of the sprocket, and removed the clutch shaft and clutches from the tractor? At that point, the sprocket can slide off the shaft. I don't understand your reference to a tiny grub-screw, please explain where it is.

I agree that sometimes when a sprocket is rusted onto a steel shaft, it can be fairly difficult to get it off. My practice when collars, bearings, sprockets etc, are frozen onto shafts has been to soak them in Penetrene or another highly effective penetrant (don't waste your time with WD40 or similar non-penetrating substances) then attach a split-ring behind the sprocket, put the shaft in a hydraulic press, and apply 30 tonnes of force if necessary. Even that won't work unless your penetrant has done its job, though.

From what you have said, your machine may be fairly substantially corroded due to neglect and damp storage. Your clutch problem may have been simply due to corrosion on the aluminium clutch disk, and it may have corrected itself in service.

With regard to the type of lighting you can run with that engine, please tell us the Model, Type and Code so we can try to find the alternator current rating from the engine workshop manual. Essentially though, the most effective way to do the job is to replace the filament type globes you are using with Light Emitting Diode type globes. This increases the efficiency from 5% for the filaments, to 50% for the LEDs, so you can use the same wattage as your old globes and achieve ten times the light output. Of course careful shopping is necessary to buy LED globes at a sensible price: I tend to spend some time on ebay before making a choice. Most likely something in the region of 5 Watts per light should be appropriate for giving you lighting similar to car headlights. If you really want to melt the bushes and blind your neighbours, though, you could look at something like this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2PCS-18W...arts_Accessories&hash=item1c2f29d207

As grumpy says, can we start by posting the essential numbers from the engine? These Model, Type and Code numbers can be found on the top of the valve cover, on early Intek OHV engines. Or on a plate on top of the cowling, for later ones.

Most of our Greenfield maintenance threads here on ODK are found in the Ride On Mowers & Tractors section.

There is also our 'reference thread' on stripping and rebuilding a Greenfield drive. The pics there will be useful to you.

Grumpy, Greenfield has long used 'set screw mounted' clutch shaft outer bearings. The inner race is extended to form a collar, which has grub screws through it to lock it to the shaft. I think those are the 'tiny grub screws' in question. They are shown in the thread I've linked above.

Iceman, a good penetrating fluid and more heat are the next things to try on that sprocket. As the pics in the above thread show, the shaft is parallel, so it's just rust-bound, not locked on a taper.
If there is room to use it, a 'bearing separator' type puller is well worth a try.


As far as lights go, 12V LED reversing lights are available, and will be much easier to mount than conventional reflector lamps.

I see them in Deadly Dave's thread, Gadge, I've even heard of that kind of bearing before, I just didn't associate them with that problem.

Iceman, Dave's machine was an early one, with a long clutch shaft running the whole width of the frame. This seems to have resulted in excessive span between the bearings, causing fatigue failure of the shaft. For quite a few years now Greenfield have used a short shaft design, with the clutch shaft only about half the width of the frame, and the battery placed in the space saved. I haven't heard of a short shaft machine breaking its shaft, so Dave's problem isn't likely to happen to you.

I suggest you try to find a pair of LED lights that will fit into the existing recesses in the front end panel of your machine. This will look much better, and be much easier to fit. As Gadge said, reversing lights may be the easiest way to do the job, since the lights you currently have are also reversing lights, so you can probably find something made as an aftermarket replacement for them.

Hi yes, it is item 24, the sprocket, that I am trying to remove, tight tight tight!!!!

I had removed the whole clutch shaft and clutches from the tractor and had it on a bench so it easier to get at and soak penetrating oil downwards on it, but it is also easy to get at whilst still on the machine, except the shaft is now horizontal so penetrating oil will not soak in!

As for numbers, I realise that you guys go by these numbers to give advise, but sadly the metal rocker cover (valve cover) on the engine was somewhat rusty after being sat outdoors and the numbers are illegible in places. You can just make out the cover in the photo below. I have tried to be gently in cleaning it off so not to remove the numbers, but alas, it is heavily pitted where the numbers are.

I will write down what I can see, hopefully you can make sense of it!!

And LED bulbs sound a great idea, so will be looking in to that thanks!

I shall return with some numbers for you!

Crikey, that pic shows just how neglected it was!

For the rocker cover, give it a gentle rub back with fine [~400 grit] wet and dry paper, wipe off, then run a stick of chalk or French chalk [talc] across it, dry. It's surprising what this can reveal!

2006/2007 Model Intek, 15.5hp Briggs Stratton

What I can make out, possibly,, is-

Model ??1587 Type 011051 Code 060815?4

Hopefully you guys can make sense of that!

The first two digits of a Briggs Model Number are the engine's displacement in cubic inches, so for a 15.5 hp version they will be 28 or 31. However I believe there are problems with some of the other digits you've given us as well, since the Briggs website assures me no such engine exists. There is a 311587, but it seems to be a special purpose engine for use on pressure pumps.

The Type you've supplied doesn't feature in their records in conjunction with that Model number. Note there should be a dash after the first 4 digits of the Type, followed by the last two digits.

If the Code you supplied is largely correct the engine was made on 15 August, 2006.

Rust has taken much of the numbers away!

But that would be the correct year!

So, going by these (illegible) numbers, any idea of alternator output for the lighting coil on the Intek?

And would you have any idea if the carburettor jetting would be the same for a UK engine and an Australian engine?

The reason I ask is we have rubbish (weak) unleaded fuel in the UK, I have a backfire issue when closing the throttle down, I know from looking at imported Vespa and Lambretta scooters they have different jets, mainly air corrector jets though.

Just an idea!!

3 and 5 amp alternators seem to be the most common. Above that output they seem to have voltage regulators mounted separately on the engine.

I'm only aware of Briggs having California emissions versions, and everywhere-else versions, of their emissions control systems. Even there, they are migrating toward selling the California version everywhere, so I think it unlikely the Australian version would be different from the UK version. The "usual" unleaded fuel in most countries is 91 Research Octane Number, with 95 and 97 or 98 RON available as premium products. However in the past ten years or so most of Europe, including the UK, has made 95 RON its standard-grade fuel. Hence your regular grade UK fuel is higher octane than our regular grade Australian fuel. If your engine is misbehaving I doubt it is directly a fuel problem. It may be carburetion, or an air leak, or a malfunction in an "anti-afterfire" solenoid, or various other things. Are you sure you don't have some water in the carburetor float bowl or the fuel tank?

Your Intek engine is prone to malfunctions that can cause problems related to what you are experiencing. In particular, they blow cylinder head gaskets, and wear out their crankcase-pulse-operated fuel pumps.

There's another way of checking the alternator type, in the Briggs Repair Manual for the OHV singles.
Start with this ID chart, and see what you can see.



Of the most likely options, the referenced Figures 10 [single pole connector] and 11 [two wire, two pin flat connector] have a single diode in the connector; Fig 12 [single wire into a two pin round connector] has two diodes in the wiring harness. Fig 13 has an external regulator/rectifier unit, so doesn't look likely.

For sure, finding Briggs info without at least the right Model and Type numbers is painful. Pity about the rust.
In that model number, xx1587, the 8 doesn't fit. As grumpy says, the first two digits will be 28 or 31, for that engine model. The other numbers, taken in order: 1 is feasible; it's the basic design series. So is 5, as 5-9 here are Briggs' vertical crankshaft designations.

Then the next one - 8 here designates 'Plain output Bearing, Auxiliary Drive (PTO) Perpendicular to Crankshaft'. Which is not what you have! The most likely numbers here are 0 [plain output bearing, splash oiling] or 7 [plain bearing, pressure lubrication].

7 makes sense as the final digit; it means 'Electric Starter, 12 or 24 Volt, Gear Drive, with Alternator'.


And as grumpy suggests, a thorough cleanout of the fuel tank and carby is indicated, if it hasn't been done.
Water contamination is highly likely, given its history, and will cause trouble down the track, if it isn't already doing so.

There's a spec sheet at http://www.mymowerparts.com/pdf/Briggs-&-Stratton-Spec-Charts/ which says that the basic model series for the 28/31 cu in Intek singles are 28S700 and 311700, FWIW.

The parts lists that site has for download do list the Type Numbers that were used, within those model series.

Interesting thanks, I imagine mine would start 31 and the 3 is missing on the model number.

RE the wires coming out from the engine, looks like a red and white wire, and also a black wire, going in to a white plastic two pin plug, but the black wire is not connected to anything on the other side of the plug so am I right to assume this is the lighting coil wire!

The other wires beneath it in the photos are to the carb fuel solenoid on the other side of engine. I had flushed the fuel system out, was clean, runs like a dream apart from backing off of the throttle. Locals always moan about poor quality unleaded fuel we have, but I run a diesel van so only buy petrol for my mowers! But yes, possible air leak, I did have to replace two lengths of fuel pipe due to perishing, (plus the tap and filter of course).

On the smaller alternators Briggs usually fits the diode right at the output connector. You can see it in your picture: red/white and black wires into the white/clear connector, with a diode in the red/white wire. The red/white wire with the diode is connected to a yellowish-white wire on the tractor-harness side: this is the DC charging current to the battery, and the tractor electricals in general. The black wire from the engine's alternator into the connector is not being used at present - it carries AC, and would normally be connected to the headlight switch on the tractor harness side of the connector. This coincides with Gadge's Figure 11, but the feed wire to the diode is red and white instead of red.

Greenfield, like many other tractor manufacturers, does not use the AC supply circuit. My guess as to why they do not use it is that they want the headlights to be available for use when the engine is not running. Of course, the AC supply will not produce any output when the engine is stopped, which to me seems like a good thing, since it prevents the battery being discharged foolishly by inappropriate use of the headlights.

When you replaced the perished fuel hoses, did you remove the carburetor float bowl and clean the inside of it, plus clean out the anti-afterfire solenoid, and the main jet? The material from the perished hoses has to have gone somewhere, and those places seem likely destinations. Note also that the anti-afterfire solenoid on Briggs engines has been a very unreliable component, though at the moment I can't relate a problem with it (other than its fuel passage being blocked with junk) to your symptoms. For diagnostic purposes people sometimes remove it temporarily, screwing in a suitable very short bolt instead, to see if that fixes something. If it does, the solenoid has to be replaced with a new one.

Here's Figure 11 from the Repair Manual:



Description:
Looks like a match, except of course for the white/red DC output wire colour. Wouldn't be the first time changes during the production run haven't made it into the service literature!
The tractor-harness side wire is of course whatever colour Greenfield saw fit to use...

Brilliant explanations there thank you!

Grumpy, I didn't take the carb apart as the perished lines were on the other side of the fuel filter so nothing should have got through,,, he hopes!! But yes, worth taking apart and cleaning!

As for the lights, I did not realise up to 100 watts could be powered by it!

I did wonder why the Greenfield wiring diagram showed a wire coming out of the ignition switch for the lights, still not sure which wire that would be on it, but I am like you, I would rather not accidentally leave the lights on after switching off while I go and have a cup of tea and come back to a flat battery with no pull start!!

Iceman, bear in mind that the output voltage from the AC circuit varies considerably with engine speed. It being a Greenfield mower, it should be run with the lowest engine speed that can pull the load, so as to minimise clutch wear. That means that quite a lot of the time you'll be mowing at 2400 engine RPM, and the lights will only receive 8 Volts, which is not enough to operate filament-type globes usefully: their colour would be dull orange and there would be little light. It will probably be enough to operate LED lights usefully, because their colour is independent of voltage: they just give less intensity at lower voltage. However I suggest you don't plan on cranking out 100 Watts. Mowing at 3,600 RPM with a Greenfield would either involve implausibly high mowing speed, or rapid clutch wear.

That would be so that the supply to the lights from the battery runs through the two switches in series.
Then if the ignition is off and the key removed, passing 'aimless fiddlers' can't switch the lights on and run the battery flat...

If the headlight current runs through the key switch, it should also mean that you can't leave the lights on, since they'd turn off when you turned the ignition off. If that provision exists, it might be easier to leave the headlights wired to the battery, so you don't have the problem of dim lights at low engine speeds. Personally I'd rather use LED lights running on AC, so I could use them as much as I liked without risking eventually discharging the battery (remember the DC output from the alternator is rather limited - only 24 Watts at cruising speed of 2400 engine RPM). However that's just me - I'm rather protective of batteries, because I hate the cost of replacing them after they've sat around part-charged, and become sulphated.

That sounds like a good plan, the diagram I have is this-