OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Victa Two Stroke Engines Full Crank Engine, Super 600

These super's are awesome machines and well worth the time and effort of getting them going , if you need new front axles they are the same as the current model master cut 600 !
beware of you handle being nice and tight at the base make sure you have heavy washers to clamp them well because they tend to crack and break away.
as far as your tank goes i was too concerned of the tank rubbing through i used a piece of marine style carpet because it doesn't hold water.
also upon reassembly to the deck beware of your belt tension , to tight and they are hard to start and under powered too loose and they near break your arm with kick back.
its also well worth checking your blade plate hub as they from time to time need a shim adjustment or new top bearing and seal.
cheers , tomo

Great to get your help fellas.

Chris, could I ask you what, in your opinion, would be the minimum amount of chamfering ( spell check kept bugging me lol) needed ? Keeping in mind I don't have a Dremel. Would just rubbing down the sharp edges with emery be OK?

Yeah Mark I thought I read somewhere they did come out with something in the brackets.

Ah Tomo, good to hear from another Super aficionado! And to the rescue with the 'bracket padding' solution.
Good advice on the handles too, had read in the archives some have trouble with breakage there. Will do as you advised.
Is there a technique to the belt adjustment? I have read what's left of the instructions on the back, but it's a bit double dutch to me.
How do you know if the plate hub need shims?
The top seal seems sound for now, as does spindle bearings.

This is fantastic help blokes, many thanks to you and the forum.

Yes, I will put some foam in mine, as I have long range tanks on all of them now.
This exploded diagram may help you. It is a later model but much the same.
I notice the foam has a part number.

The belts aren't to bad to adjust just remember firm not tight not slack and you should be right.
usually when they need shimming it has up and down movement on the shaft , the only thing that holds the hub to the shaft on the body is a cir-clip and i have had one drop a hub from to much free play the tin belt cover does catch it if it does come free

Great info, thanks heaps Tomo.

The spindle had no play when checked, good to know for future checks.

Am concerned about the rings in the picture below, after reading on another thread which talked about the upper ring being gray and the other black. Both these rings were the same and black. The rings are new old stock and the bottom ring has a ring expander under it.
I have turned the engine over with a socket, hence the marks. It was quite tight, but being my first have nothing to compare it to.




Of a lesser concern, but still annoying, I stuffed up badly on my colour choice for the base.
I realize the is an engine forum but can't justify, to myself, starting a new thread on this one rebuild. Hope it's OK to put it in here.

The colour on top of can was darker and didn't realize my original colour had faded so much. Even though I'm just doing it up for personal use it still bugs me as just about everything else is original as possible, front wheels excepted, but that's another story.



Any advice would be most welcome as I really need to get this finished.

G'day Bushie, cant really tell by your image, but hope there is plenty of 2 stroke oil in the bore & no grit from honing when turning engine over.
Don't think you have too much to worry about with your rings.
Your new rings will have to bed into the bore.

I have recently re-ringed a power torque engine and both of the new rings were black, normally one is grey.
So, I measured both of them with a micrometre looking for a difference.
Didn't see any real measurable difference, but put what I thought was the larger one as the compression ring, nearest the crown of the piston.

Paint looks great, it will make it easier to clean down.

Hi Bushie and Mark,
I have to agree with Mark, the paint looks great...very close to the colour of the early Tilt-A-Cut.

Thanks Mark and Deejay.

After honing and porting the bore I washed the whole barrel in soap and water then high pressure water, then used compressed air and and heat gun to dry off and smeared with 2 stroke oil. I put pretty much poured a cap full of 2 stroke oil over the bearings and big end and smeared the barrel and rings just prior to assembly.

Had the barrel vertical and was turning over with a socket and funny enough, it was pumping oil out of the crankcase and accumulating in the bottom of the inlet and outlet!
So I am really assured the bore is well oiled lol.

Keeping the above oiling in mind, I want to turn the engine faster with a drill, to check my spark, as after all it was difficult starting which prompted this overhaul. Would doing this be OK?
It would be so much easier to attend to on the bench. Have seen it done on Youtube, doesn't make it right though...

I have made a little plate to hold in vice:



The used modules I was given are IIDA EY850, are they OK to use?
Must be off a powertorque.

Am glad you both like the paint job, it has made it easier to accept, realize it's quite a few shades lighter than original, When seen in the flesh. Didn't recognize until I had stripped the base and saw the colour under the belt guard. Will live with it now as can't justify the expense of painting over.

Have learned quite a few things on this rebuild, will make a summary at the end.

Cheers for now.

Bruce, I - and a whole lot of other people - often use an electric drill to spin up an engine on the bench, both for compression tests and to work an overhauled engine for a while before starting it. However I would never use a drill on a rebuilt engine that I had not turned over by hand several times first. There are two reasons for this. First, the electric drill just applies as much force as possible whenever it is resisted. This will have ugly effects if something was incorrectly assembled. The second reason is that our hands are well-trained, fine-discriminating force measuring devices. They notice that slight grittiness, occasional small changes in resistance, and various other signs of insufficient lubricant or cleanliness, misalignment, or whatever.

There is an example of what can go wrong in your post 5710 earlier in this thread. You said that the engine was hard to turn over, after assembling with new rings. Meanwhile, those rings look as if they were not oiled prior to inserting the piston into the bore, and since the rings and grooves appear dry after the engine had been turned over, I wonder if the bore was oiled either? Oiling the rings/ring grooves and the bore is essential. If you do not, the rings are likely to be scuffed, as your lower ring seems to be, in the first seconds of the engine's life. This greatly shortens their life.

Hi Bushie, you mentioned earlier that the motor felt tight to turn over. I notice the decompressor is blanked off with a spark plug and you have no plug in the plug hole, so it should turn freely with minimal resistance. If you've checked the end gap of the rings and they were within limits i would suggest that you remove the ring expander from under the bottom ring and see if this helps. By your photo it seems as the bottom ring is the one that is marked yet the top ring appears unscathed, hence leading me to believe the expander is causing your problem.. Both rings are still usable as you have not yet turned it over a few hundred times with the drill.

After you've removed the expander and re-assembled, the engine should turn freely by HAND and not require the use of a socket and ratchet.

Thanks Grumpy and Bigted.
Well I could just, barely, turn it over by hand, that is without the flywheel, so used a socket. Later when the flywheel was on I could turn it over with that, but it did seem tight.
I did oil the rings, bore and piston. Good to know I can use a drill to check spark etc. when every thing is going freely.

Yes Bigted I did check the ring gaps and they were within limits (just) .08 from memory. I put one ring at a time in the bottom of the bore and made sure it was square, using the piston with a ring in the bottom ring groove to push in.
Will take out the ring expander in the morning, recon you've 'hit the nail on the head'. Will double check all tolerances.

Terrific advice gents, am very grateful I can go on with the project tomorrow with renewed confidence and gained knowledge.

The expander may be the problem, but only if the ring set was very badly designed, made, or installed (some expanders, particularly those made for cars, can be "crossed over" at the ends when you put them in the ring groove, and this causes the ring not to sit right down in the groove). I've made my opinion of the design of Victa 2 strokes known several times, and won't go into it further. If the excessive friction problem is solved by removing the expander, then you should remove it because using it may ruin your engine, but you should bear in mind that the bottom piston ring may not function properly without it.

You were spot on with your assessment of the problem Bigted. Took the expander out, reassembled and it is turning over freely by hand. Can't thank you enough. Checked all tolerances and re-oiled.
BTW the min ring gap was .008 (not .08 as mentioned above) to .017 max, they were wider than .008 but still below max.

Couldn't find a torque spec on the flywheel nut, undid it with an impact gun...

Have also got a nice healthy spark by turning the engine over with a drill (after turning the coil around the right way ).

Will be able to go on with the rest of the rebuild now.



Cheers.

Frame assembly is near completion but concerned about a few parts, mainly the high compression powerplus muffler. tried the online forum but has the conventional one. Will put an add in Wanted.

A bit more progress.







Will have to improve my painting skills if ever I refurbish another mower, apart from a marginal, at best, colour match, I bought an inferior paint. As Mark (electric) pointed out in one of his early rebuilds; "it's only a few more dollars for good paint". Particularly seeing it took two cans, where I'm sure I'd have some left in a single can of good stuff. Some of the old rattle can paints I've had here for many years, (Galmet, Killrust) performed much better.
On top of that, late one evening when carrying the base outside I chipped it, then rushing to paint over the chips, with the cheap paint not covering well, made runs on an otherwise reasonable finish.

Only managed to save one sticker/decal, the 'Super 600' one was peeling and bubbled and the 'belt adjustment' one came off with the masking tape.

Started working on the G4 carby today. Think I've read and saved everything on the forum about them, and as opposed to the LM, but still confused regarding the jet and emulsion tube. Pretty sure the one off the Super was a X breed, but the other two I stripped down I'm quite sure are complete-genuine though none had emulsion tubes.
Things noted: The body of the G4 is longer, it has longer 'legs' on the cam, it has the idle knob and a black poppet valve. Some advice here would be appreciated.
Of the three jets one has a bigger bore, by eye, also the outer spring looked a bigger gauge on that one. Will use this one on the Super.
How important is the gauze filter on the jet?

Would like to know the vintage of the mower, engine number is 304 0388.

Still waiting on a few things, foam spacer for under the filter, foam for the fuel cap. The windrower flap has a split that will have to wait till I visit a friend and his tig, but the thing I am most anxious about is the right muffler, would gladly pay the going rate + postage if anyone has a spare(??)

~

Bushie, looks good so far mate. The LM and G4 carby parts are not interchangeable so dont mix them up.
The carb you use is up to you but the gauze on the jet is critical as it acts as a filter to stop debris from blocking the jet. The idle knob was made obsolete by Victa as the average consumer was dialling the idle way too low and was causing issues like fouled plugs and blocked mufflers as the oil was not burning out of the fuel mixture.
As for the muffler i'll have a look if i've got one and let you know.

This might also help but bear in mind the specs are for an LM carby mounted to a powertorque engine.

Thanks Ted.
Regarding the G4 LM mix in the original carb, I recon that's why it was giving trouble starting, wonder she ever ran with a mix of parts.
Would like to keep it as original as possible but with the emulsion tube dilemma I may have no choice but to use a LM. Would liked to have used the jet with the bigger bore (if that's what it's called) but that's the one without the gauze.

"The idle knob was made obsolete by Victa as the average consumer was dialing the idle way too low and was causing issues like fouled plugs and blocked mufflers as the oil was not burning out of the fuel mixture".
Very handy to know....
In the chart the jet size for the S-600 is 38-40, does that indicate bigger (bore)?

Thanks for the chart, I have it saved but this is part of the reason for my confusion, I had no idea the specs relate only to LM and powertorque. I suppose the G4 jets didn't have the 'rings' to designate their size?
Edit: Looking back at an older post Rodeobob said: "The straight inlet jet has two circles on the face". Was relating to a Powerplus.

Be great if you found a Powerplus muffler.

Would still like some clarification on the emulsion tube if you, or someone can.

The one you would need is the plain faced one on the right in the photo. In the full crank models there was only 2 jets i'm aware of. The plain face for the 160cc and the 1 ring for the 125cc.
The s-600 powertorque runs a smaller jet and a larger diameter intake snorkel.

As for the emulsion tube, what clarification would you lke. Post up some pictures of the underside of the jet and carby where the jet screws in.