OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions On Victa Ride On Mower Frames Victa 11-497 ride on clutch problem

Hi all,

I'm basically keen on using older equipment instead of new crap, and I have this ancient ride-on, that I have rescued, with the help of a mechanic friend, many times from the scrap heap.
Right now it's clutch has simply stopped working and I can't see what's wrong - everything seems ok (to my very untrained eye)
So - i apologise that I'm not sure even where to start. I found this forum and it looks great, and I hesitate to jump straight in asking for help!!
My mechanical skills and tools are limited and usually include anger and cuts on my hands followed by beer
However - this old thing is simply mechanical and I am determined to try to solve it.
If anyone can let me know what info I should supply etc. that would be awesome, also if there was a diagram in existence of the clutch/pulley system I'm probably smart enough to work out why mine doesn't work...
I put up a video on my YT channel about this machine and how I feel about older equipment if anyone is interested. Apologies again that my channel is somewhat un-related (it's a motovlogging channel) but this one vid is about the ride-on.



I'm not looking for interest in the channel - just this one vid might make sense of why I am using a 30+ year old ride on!!
Thanks in advance for anyone who understands my rambling post!!!

Hi CaptainCranky, welcome to Outdoorking. I think you'll find a lot of members here have mowers as old as yours, and tend to keep them working as long as they can, partly because it saves money and partly because they enjoy the challenge.

Your Victa 11-497 seems to be actually an MTD 132-497-612. Neither Victa nor Rover actually made ride-on mowers - they both applied their brands to imported American machines. If you can find an MTD model and serial sticker, it may be possible to get access to an owner manual. The sticker should look like this example from the MTD website:


The problem I have at the moment is that I do not know which clutch you are having trouble with: the one for the wheel-drive, or the one for the cutter-deck drive.

Here is the Illustrated Parts List diagram for the wheel drive:


Here is the IPL diagram for the cutter drive:


I suggest you work from these diagrams to identify where your problem is, and tell us about it by referring to the numbers given on those diagrams.

[Rover, of course, did design and make their own ride-ons. ed: CyberJack]

Wow Grumpy - that is awesome help, especially given my lack of savvy
Thank you kindly for your welcome. Cranky welcomed by Grumpy... cool!
It is the wheel drive - it is constantly engaged.
The first problem was the drive belt for the cutter deck came off it's runners - I put it back on twice, noticing that it was fairly badly worn and damaged, and therefore need replaced - thought I would persevere just to finish the garden.
Then the wheel drive clutch stopped having any effect - just constantly moving. As the brakes died 15 years ago I use reverse as brakes so I decided it was too dangerous to carry on.
Now that I've calmed down, I'll give it a thorough clean, and then see if I can glean anything from the charts you have provided - thank you VERY much indeed!!

I will let you know how I go!

I had such a bad-equipment day yesterday, brush-cutter #1 that I had just serviced, conked out, brush-cutter #2, a cheapy that a neighbour gave me, ran out of twine and the nut holding the twine holder was locked tight. Then the mower played up, lol
I went inside and Wifey was swearing at her printer which had also died - the planets must have been aligned in a middle finger formation!!

If you post some pictures, Cranky, we can discuss what is wrong. The diagrams I have posted are not clear, at least to me, in explaining the wheel drive clutch. It looks as if the clutch pedal, Item 28, operates a pull-rod, Item 30, which rotates a bell crank, Item 32. It looks as if an idler pulley, which I can't find on the diagram, mounts on that bell crank and tightens the V belt to engage the drive. Most likely something is jammed on your mower - and the most likely thing to be jammed is the bell crank, Item 30. If you pull and push on the clutch pedal whilst watching the bell crank, you will probably see what is and isn't working. If you post pictures of those bits with a comment or two on what you are seeing, we'll hopefully get there. When the clutch is working we can talk about what is wrong with the brake.

A ride-on mower is too big an object to operate without a reliable brake and clutch. You need to fix both.

Hi Grumpy - I know - no brake pretty bad even without the clutch problem. Because I live on a level easy block, it's limited the risk. My mechanic friend said it really wasn't worth fixing the brake - but I might look into learning how to do it myself. I used to trade him mechanical hours for hours in my recording studio, but I feel I can't ask him for more time at the minute without being unfair.

I will post more info asap, might take me a while as I am really stretched. I will have to really clean the machine first - it has an oil leak and is dirty anyway - cleaning it first will help everything!

It looks to me like the idler pulley is actually item 59 on the bottom drawing - it moves in and out with the clutch foot pedal to create friction or no friction against the belt. As far as I have seen so far, that operation still works, but there may be another part that has failed and made it always be "friction". You kind of have to combine the 2 drawings to see the whole clutch operation, I think!

I really appreciate the help - bear with me please as I find the time to get onto it.

Many thanks,

Cranky

Quick update - I cleaned it up and had another look underneath. The clutch pulley system is all working fine, but the belt appears to have turned itself inside out. As the belt has a sort of a v cross-section, I imagine that the thicker edge of the belt is now within the pulleys as it travels, therefore giving much more friction - even when the clutch is depressed.
Does that sound likely?
anyway - I have to figure out how to replace both belts - doesn't look obvious or simple, but mabye even I can figure it out!

Belts normally turn over either because they are worn out, or because the pulleys are misaligned. Since you know the belt is worn out, that is likely to be the explanation in this case. When a belt turns over, its widest part is innermost on the pulley, instead of outermost. That means it rides way up high on the pulley, since only the top of the pulley groove is wide enough for the belt to fit. If it isn't clear why that is so, draw a diagram of a V inside another V, and note that they "nest" into each other. Then turn the inner V around so its wide part is trying to enter other V: it can't fit in, it just rides on the outside of the other V. Now, think about the V belt: its effective length is not its outermost length, it is about a third of the way inward toward its innermost length. It would have to be somewhat longer than its effective length, to fit around the outside of the V pulleys. Since it doesn't get any longer when it turns inside out, it is suddenly too short to fit around the pulleys, so the clutch pulley doesn't retract far enough to relax the belt. You could probably get it running in the short term just by adjusting the clutch linkage to make it retract the clutch pulley further, but what you need to do to fix the problem, is replace the belt.

If you post pictures of the pulleys, belt, and belt routing, we can probably work out how to remove the old belt and fit a new one. If you and I can't, we're fairly sure to have other members who can.

Thanks again Grumpy, I totally understand the principal of why the "inside out" belt then leads to the clutch not dis-engaging - but thanks for confirming what was mostly a guess (and good knowledge and love of Physics, lol) for me.
I am waiting for my mechanic friend (bumped into him randomly yesterday!) to come over and help me get the machine safely on it's side or sitting up on it's rear end (whichever looks safer) so we can get decent access. hopefully I'll get some photo's then.
Even if we figure out the problem I really want to put some photos up, and whatever the solution was, as people may be interested and they may help someone else in the future.

cheers, Cranky

Please post pictures of the brake parts as well, so we can work out a solution to that problem as soon as the belt replacements are sorted out.

Ok - I managed to fit a bit of time in, found a loose engine mount and tightened, got the mower on it's side and established a draft plan of action:

1. Sharpen blades
2. Put mower back on wheels and lower cutting deck onto some timber supports
3. Remove the (5?) split pins and release the cutting deck (have to in order to remove belts)
4. Remove belts (? may have to remove some guards around the pulley wheels?)
5. Take belts to places that may have replacements ones - truck/bearing shops in mind
6. Replace belts
7. Re-connect the cutting deck and replace split pins

Some photos - not all great but may be useful:

First, please post the Model, Type and Code numbers for your Briggs engine. They will be stamped on the engine's cooling cowl, the black pressed-tin piece that is in your first picture. They may be near the carburetor. With that we can identify the engine's Illustrated Parts List, Operator's Manual, and date of manufacture. The mower was probably made just a month or two after the engine - because it is an American mower, there is no long supply line as there is for Australian mowers.

Second, I think there are two easy ways to get the correct belts. The first is by searching the part numbers in the Outdoorking online store, and if you don't find them, send a message to the store staff - they will find them for you.
The second way is by buying them on ebay or going to an industrial belt supplier and giving them the sizes (one is an A82, the other is a B69).

Here are the part numbers and details of the belts, from the parts list.

TM43166A "V"-Belt 21/32� Wide x 69" Long (Blade Drive Belt) - this is a standard belt, called a B69 in the trade.
TM61807A "V"-Belt �� Wide x 82" Long (Transmission Drive Belt) - this is a standard belt, called an A82 in the trade.

Thanks Grumpy - haven't had any more time to work on it, but just wanted to pass on my thanks for the info on the belts.

G'day,

I have one of these old beasts, it's in use at least weekly, and still goes well.

A couple of things.

1/ MTD recommend that to work on these machines, take the fuel cap off, put a piece of glad wrap over the filler hole and screw the cap back on. That stops any fuel leaking out. When you've done that the machine can be lifted right up at the front and will stand up quite securely on the back wheels, rear mudguard and the seat. I've done it, and it works well. Great for doing any work on the underside of the machine. Just remember to take the glad wrap out again when you have put the machine back on it's wheels again.

2/ The disc pads are available in Australia. An after market version are made by Bynorm.

3/ You mentioned that there was a lot of oil around. Oil on a belt can also make the belt grab and note release cleanly when you put your foot on the clutch. I had this problem for a while with a weeping lower engine oil seal. Changed the seal, cleaned everything up, problem solved.

I've downloaded the manual / parts list for the MTD version. I gives a lot of good info, including how to adjust the disc brake. If you'd like a copy, give ma a yell & I'll email it to you.

Cheers

Maurie