OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Collectors Corner Identification of Particular Machines Victa Model 4 Automatic Specifications

Perfect! Nothing wrong here I can confirm. The first example as you state is definately the early type and came as a white/opaque and they vary in texture due to time. It has been disputed by many these didnt exist, but I think they expected white to mean snow white, this wasnt the case as it is more clear or opaque. Id even been told they were rejects, also not the case as many examples exist. The second is the same green as the groove covers and oil nips. Perfect examples of the correct caps and timeline for each Unkie.

Yes I can confirm this information also, I actually got a shock to start with when I stripped the paint off my 112,000 auto to find the cap clear, good work Unki, by the way the rear flap on EBay sold for $817 plus postage, it is not being posted to me

$817! Damn, I thought about paying $400 max on it - somebody sure wanted it. Especially given the last one to come up was on the mower that started this thread, which sold for $850 with the mower attached. It shows that if you get two people that really want something, the sky is the limit with these prices.

Jonesy and Blue, regarding the first style fuel cap, do any of your other model 4's have one?

Made an interesting find today. the following Special is up on ebay at the moment:




It doesn't look like much, but its serial number is #162,577. This would be the earliest M5S1 I have seen, and combined with Jonesy's model 4 #161,127 (see post 48934), it looks like we may have nailed the serial number at which the Model 5 base was introduced.

I have a model 4 in the 154,000s so we can be pretty sure that side is pretty much confirmed, but a few more M5S1's in the mid 160,000 range would certainly close the case as to when the Model 5 was introduced.

In short, I reckon it would be safe to say that the Model 4 ended and the M5S1 began at around 161,000. Any thoughts?

Both my autos have the clear cap unkie. I have a few spares of both but they wernt on mowers, just ones ive picked up. Sounds good for the model intersection, we can see what examples show up. Im still interested in the plain m4s and serial sequence end for the auto. My main curiosity is these later than 128, 000 autos that some say exist (would like more concise comfirmation off those who have these examples) as I am still in possession of an original m4 non auto with a 129, 000 serial,and im almost certain they never offered both the m4 auto and m4 std togehter. It was a case of m4 auto was canned then the m4 non auto carried on until the model 5 s1. Anyway I really want to see some later confirmed unrestored original autos after this serial as none seem to have come forward unless im mistaken

Thanks for the confirmation on the fuel caps Blue - case closed on that one! Regarding the discontinuation of the Automatic proper, I agree that they likely never passed the 128,000 serial. Nothing we have yet seen would suggest otherwise.

Regarding the model 4 Special and the Automatic running side by side, I keep thinking back to the ad from March 58 (see post 48792) that advertises all three simultaneously. I can only imagine that at this point they had already recognised the Automatic was destined for failure and were looking for an alternative flagship model to transition to. This same ad is also the last mention of the automatic I could find, so it probably supports the theory of a phase out.

I'm tentatively leaning towards the full 110,000 to 128,000 being Automatics with unbadged Model 4 "Specials" running from 128,000 through to 162,000. Granted a good portion of the 128 - 162,000 were model 3's. Obviously most of the Automatics were reverted to Specials as the components failed, so that just adds to the confusion. My collector friend recalled an anecdote a former Victa dealer told him - The gist of it being that dealers were instructed by Victa to revert Automatics free of charge any time they were brought in.

I did a little more digging to find out when the Special badge (the existing type) first appeared in ads and came up with this:

November 28, 1958 - Sydney Morning Herald



Supporting the theory that November was the month of the plastic badge's introduction is that this ad appears next to images depicting the first state (mock up?) badge as seen in the photo with Merv (see above). What this may show is that Specials were being sold all the way from March to November 58' without a badge.

One last tidbit for this post. According to John Mason, the introduction of the folding handlebars was one of Victa's most significant developments. It enabled them to fit the mower inside a shipping box, along with a fuel can and funnel. Notice the funnel sitting on top of the fuel cans in this image of a dealer display:




Here is that funnel, in the correct green and with its own part number:

Love the way it is used to measure the oil for mixing too, also more great investigating Unki.

Cheers mate! Yep that funnel is pretty cool. Pretty rare I'd reckon!

So I was thinking through this whole issue of when the model 4 ended and the model 5 began and also how all this relates to the introduction of the label �Special�. I was preoccupied with the introduction of the �Special� badge, as I considered it the marker for the transition, when I realised the answer had been staring me in the face the whole time.
We know the Model 4 ran on the Mk 4 chassis and the Model 5 ran on the Mk5 chassis, but at no point had I thought to compare the two schematic chassis diagrams side by side. The Victa models were always named after the chassis they were fitted with, so logically, variations in theses chassis define the transition from one model to the next.

Much of the discussion had focused primarily on the skirt holes which appear on the edge of the die cast base. Four holes equal a Model 4 chassis and two holes equals a Model 5, or so I thought. A side by side comparison of the chassis schematics tell a different story. The diecast base alone does not define the chassis, but rather it�s the components those bases were fitted with that determines the model.

This early schematic of the Mk5 chassis (see below), is significant for four quite distinct reasons. First and foremost, the die cast base plate is identical to that of the Mk 4 chassis, ie four holes rather than two. Secondly, the only difference between the two chassis is the absence of a name badge on the handle bars, which is incidentally illustrated with a part number in the Mk4 chassis schematic. Finally of note, the absence of Automatic style side skirts (which is substituted with the round toe ring), and the edger groove cover, for which no cover is present. That�s it, no other differences. For all intents and purposes, the original Mk 5 chassis was simply a stripped down version of the Mk4 chassis with the substitution of a toe ring.

What to make of all this? I think it can be concluded that the �Special� was introduced on an early Mk 5 chassis, which, according to the schematics, originally had the same diecast base as the Mk4. It was released without a badge and with a toe ring. We know the �Special� was released on or before March 9, 1958 (see post 48987), and that it appears the plastic name badge was not introduced until late November 58� (see post 53190). This all supports the case for the Model 5 Special having been released unbadged, with a toering and without an edger slot cover, and most importantly, all riding on a four holed, Mk4 style diecast base.

In short, all those �stripped down Model 4�s� with serial numbers after 128,000 we've been seeing are actually Model 5 Specials without a badge.

Further confirmation of all this would be to check if later copies of the Mk5 chassis and Mk5a engine schematics for amendments, so if any of you fellas have one please post a scan here!

I only have the same as you have above as far as the schematics go, I do have the same erea for the 5A engine,





All very interesting Unki and I would also like to know of the different part # for the series 1,2&3 and if they even change, another interesting thing is the Romoto 1 & 2, Automatic and your 3rd scan all list the same part# for the plug spanner, #8-200 but in your second scan it shows the bent bar spanner for the toe ring as previously discussed, still a lot of grey areas will need to be cross referenced before we can put this one to bed I feel.

before we move to far away from the Fuel caps I have some images that I will put up because I have two that are green plasic but look to me to have original paint on them, firstly I thought I will show everyone what the clear/white cap looks like without paint.





this is it when painted and looking on the inside, as all can tell matches perfectly with the image Unki put up.




next are the only other green caps I have and they are all green plastic, one plain and two painted, the one on the left came off my outboard engine #131049, the one in the centre off Model 4 engine #125166 and the one on the right was not on a mower.

Cool stuff, so we can safely say that the fuel caps ran the clear type up to at least #117,000 and introduced the painted green plastic version some time before #125,000. I suspect the unpainted green cap arrived around the demise of the Automatic, so #130,000 or so, and ran all the way up to the introduction of the M5S1 base - wait and see I guess.

Just thought I would put up some pics of a nice example of a mostly original model 4 that was on ebay recently, I did contact the seller and gained permission to post the photos.

non original fuel cap, but has the non rubber mounted tank. Also nice set of wheels & all the edge bolts for the side flaps complete with springs and cups.





Very nice green rubber starter rubber on an early starter with the rounded lug over the spring roll pin, has the wrong single cable carby top.





Painted axel housings with green plastic oil nips and no slit in the front left housing. has the remnants of the front flap.






Engine # 112370 over 2, mower 460 before mine. badge in nice condition too.







I would have liked to see the choke and throttle.

seen these 2 on ebay and one looks like an auto but numbers dont really match as per your specs here? Ac 66284 looks pretty old and crappy original? the other one has the number 11870 with 1AAA before it
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/191084374696?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Hey Gizmo...The auto may have been once but yeah engine no is incorrect. Both serials belong to either late model 5 s2 for the ac and model 5 s3 for the 1aaa. Id buy the auto for 30-50 but not the other one...I love the look lols,rotomo top hat and even a scott.bonnar 35 front wheel and a really nice lean lmao...good spotting gizmo

tried getting it going today no spark soon as i give it a tune ill do the lawns

Welcome to the forum,Suziegaz

This really is a sight for sore eyes!A Beautiful Original Automatic example...amazing condition as is the M5 S3.

I wont ask to many questions on how and why you came across this,but if your willing,this forum and many of its members would love any info and images or any history relating to Your Auto(or dare I ask If one day it might be possible for you to take footage of it in full operating conditions).

If youd care to share it would be a benchmark for our archives.


My appologies if I ask to much,but not many people get a chance to see many Completes if at all,Especially a Seemingly fully functional Automatic.

I hope you enjoy your time at ODK and thankyou for your contribution.

Regards Mal.

Suziegaz, that is one nice mower you have there, I would love to know what the engine number was, I would guess after 113,000 but probably not much after due to the big bottom handle bar clamp bolts. And as Blue has said any further info you want to share would be great.

Hi suziegaz,

And a warm welcome back to the ODK Forum.
Wow! What an awesome, complete Auto. This is the first time I have laid eyes on a machine with both the front and the rear flaps fitted and in the correct colour scheme, and thank you for sharing the pics with us.

I, too, support Mal and Jonesy in asking if you would be kind enough to share some more pics from different angles particularly the carby set-up....this will help our members see the differences that the Auto embodied and would be great for this important archive.
Any information you can give us will be very much appreciated.

Thankyou also for sharing the pic of your Model 5 Series 3 with us, we don't get to see many of this model in beautiful original restored condition either.
Looking forward to your future posts,

116539 older pic. Replaced a few things nos wheels .caps. Stator plate .cutting base. Snorkel. Air filter . Blades pull handle wire ...... all NOS few Brocken parts on front fap repaired have had going before engine has had new bearings seals new

Thanks for the images,

She looks pretty much spot on for serial:) great score with the nos wheels and pull knob boot.
Milperra made yes? Or a new sticker? Your running the very early handle bar spanner clip bolts too. A beautiful accurate example mate, very impressive Automatic. Your M5 S3 is seemingly running a concord sticker from the image, may I ask the serial of this one if you wouldnt mind. Its running the AM wheels yes? Be damn blessed to find 2 complete nos wheel sets:)

Nice to see two examples in such wonderful original complete condition! Good on ya!

And on a lighter note...don't forget to put your fuel line on...lols

had a uncle work for Anthony Horderns in garden section moved on to sales where he sold serviced repaired victas in the late 50ties he finished around 71 collected a lot of parts got most of my parts of him in the early 80ties..... wheels on the special are after market have some good original wheels could put them back on the pic i just posted is year old ... the fuel line is on

Ha ha yes you said it was an old pic:)

Cool story....I was also fortunate enough to pick up many Nos items many years ago I used on my original collection. But alas I sold them all off many years ago. Have re started restoring in recent years and I still cant adjust to todays ridiculous prices, thankfully I never sold much of my old parts. But with the exception of the billi cart, mk1 fan and a complete auto( both skirts and the front flap assy) my collection is almost done up to sheerline 9.

what about 156532 is that to high for a automattic

G'day fellas!

Gman, 156 thousand would be too high for an auto, but is right for the last of the model 4 Specials.

So fellas, I've decided to call it a day on restoring an Auto and will concentrate on a couple of Rotos for a bit. As a result of the downsize, I've decided to offload my Automatic collection beginning with my NOS front flap I've put it up on ebay for a price that's quite a bit lower than I've been offered, but it's still a damned expensive thing I admit. I'll see how it goes, I guess. If it doesn't sell I'll just pop it in storage for a decade or so until I can find the time and resources to do it justice

One last contribution for the record, anyway. There was a bit of discussion as to wether the Automatic ever had a V code. According to this, it looks unlikely:

Totally Agreed on the serial unkie, getting to close to model 5....Omg! selling the auto Gasps*:( As for the Vcode, it appears All model 4 and 5 variants fall under the V 5 Code,this would include model 4 auto 4, 5 s1, 2, 3.... this I think is comfirmed by the date 57-60. So yeah while it doesnt have its own Specific code, i think it still belongs in the V5 range.I have found this applies to at least two other models, one being the utility variant that runs alongside the sheerline 6. It utilises the same engine and cowl assy as sheerline but with utility base. This model does not have its own Vcode, yet exists and is an accurate model in the Victa range. I guess since its demise was so quick it never recieved an exact coding? This might explain why the model 3 rotomo has Vcode 4, yet was produced after the model 4 automatic.....its my assumption that Vcode 4 was originally assigned to the automatic until its demise,then reassigned to the model 3 to keep the sequence until.the model.5 was released as Vcode 5......

Hi Unkie,

It is sad to see you selling your collection of Automatic parts....but the upside is that someone else may be able to complete their restoration through your efforts.....

May I add my many thanks for your contribution to this valuable archive, mate.
You may be aware that this thread now has received over 140,226 views and climbing fast....

Unkie, I would love the front flap but you are about 3 weeks early selling it, for me anyway, oh well hope you get a good price for it, and I recon Blue is spot on with the V codes, and I recon the bent tommy bar spanner on your auto Suziegaz would also be correct as it has the later slit in the front wheel adjuster.

As far as im aware Jonesy the straight bar really only came on very early autos. Remember the small hex end of the spanner wasnt just for the height adjust bolt, it was originally designed to relax and adjust the handle bars and skirt bolts while the other was obviously for the plug. The use of the larger nut on the height adjust was for extra load tension to lock the adjust whell nice and tight so they didnt have to tool up a whole new spanner with a 1/4 end...the curved ends were really made to stop people losing the bar:) but your dead right gaz's serial is correct for the bent ended spanner. Preferably I find the straight bar better as its easier to turn the height adjust wheel. This handle apart from the obvious of mounting the spanner and removing the nuts was actually written in an advert for "ease of use for women" to operate the height adjust! Lols

Yeah,I'll see how it goes, mate. I certainly wouldn't part with it for any less than I've listed it at. I'll probably be relieved if it doesn't sell lol!

Thanks very much mate, I've thoroughly enjoyed it. That view count is something else! I guess it confirms there really is genuine interest in this model out there.

LOL, sorry mate. You wouldn't have room with all those stationary engines you've got anyway, right?!

So Boydie just shared some images of his un-restored Auto (#120875) on another thread. Interestingly, a couple of things are of note:

1)It has unpainted axle housings
2)It is running the first type starter.

Looking back through the threads at other examples, we can now confirm that they stopped painting axle housings between #118746 and #120875.

In addition, the first style starter (without the pin) was used up until at least as late as #120875, with the intro of the second style starter no later than #122228.

Looks like the posibility of losing My Precious has got me all fired up again

And also Unkie it's starting to push the amount of auto's with flap remnants and complete into the early 120's