OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Walk Behind Lawn Mower Frames Question On Scott Bonnar Cylinder Mowers Question on Supercut Mower

hello B.B, the carby fitted to your 412 engine is correct. MK12/1,12/2 and the 412 were all fitted with the B.10 carby.the spec no 584x is a standard off the shelf engine. I have a spec listing for the 555x engine as scott bonnar,and the only special component was a different gov.spring, so I would assume that this engine also had the B10,carby.
regards, john.

Hi John,

Thanks for that info regarding the carby and to tell you the truth I'm kinda glad I don't have to change it back to make it original. So why I was given that earlier air cleaner is a bit beyond me as I'm wondering where it came from in the first instance. The mower was given to me from a woman whose father bought it new and used it for years until his death 5 years ago. Another thing that puzzles me is the change of the fuel tank from the original barrel type to the Kieby Lauson unit taken from a Model 45.

Do you by any chance have the original tank and mounting straps that suit the 412 engine available for me to purchase as I would dearly want to put it back to stock as I doubt there would be another Supercut out there that is in a fully original and showroom restored state.

Cheers,
BB

Hi Darryl,

Thanks for your support regarding my intentions to fully restore the Supercut. As far as the catcher is concerned it's in fabulous shape apart from a bit of panel beating required. My son is an apprentice beater so I'm sure it will be a good piece to hone his craft on. Hopefully John can help with a replacement tank and mounting straps so that I can get the Villiers back to original.

One point I've noticed on some other pictures I've found on this site of other Supercuts is the rest mounts for the crank handle, mine has those mounts inboard of the right hand side while others have them outboard so that the handle could be easily hit as the mower passes shrubs and bushes etc.

The following shot is an outboard mount version of the crank handle

Hi BB,

That is an easy one to explain mate.
You will notice that it has a Villiers that is mounted back-to-front when compared to yours, and is a clockwise rotating engine driving a double 'V' belt pulley to the large pulley on the counter-shaft, on the right hand side of the machine.

Your machine is driven by an anti-clockwise rotating engine with a small chain sprocket to a large on the counter-shaft,on the left hand side.

If the crank-handle was placed on the inside as yours is, it would interfere with the large double pulley and side plate, because of the handles length.
It is easy to see that in the photo.

BTW, you will see that the Supercut in the photo also has a toolbox mounted on the right hand handlebar, I noticed in your pics, that both your petrol and electric don't seem to have one fitted.
I don't know if they were an optional extra or a standard fit...but you will notice in the original advert in my post above that it is not shown.

However, it is depicted in the Model 17 (Petrol) parts list shown here as part number 139 with the clamps (2 off) as part number 140.


I have had 2 Model 17's in my time (in fact I still have my 18" electric) and both have had the toolbox. I removed it from the electric and fitted it to my Model 45.
Here's a pic...

You may care to check with the lady you got the machine from, it may be hiding in the shed somewhere....
Good hunting BB,

Hi Darryl,

Can you inform me as to how the toolbox is attached ? Would the handle bar have a hole through it with a bolt protruding from the box through the handle bar and a wing nut that tightens up to hold in place because I've just looked at the machine and there are two very visible witness marks as it had electrical tape wrapped around the handle bar. These marks are about 7 inches apart.
I still have the previous owners phone number so I could still contact them and send a picture of yours via E-mail to them to have a look for it if it was indeed fitted previously.

Thanks again Darryl.

BTW that photo I've posted up actually looks like an Electric unit that's been converted to petrol as the Electric mower uses a full width drive shaft with two belts.

Cheers,
BB

Hi BB,

The toolbox has been mounted in various ways, and yes, through the handlebar as yours has is one of them...the one on my electric was by 2 cast fittings (part numbers 107 and 105 in the parts lists above, with the nuts inside the box with spring washers) and also mounted using 2 'U' clamps which is also on the parts list.

That mower in your pic is original with the petrol engine, we had 2 of those used as greens mowers at my local golf club, both had the double 'V' belts and the clockwise rotation Villiers.

By the way, through research this morning I have found that SB produced a 24" Supercut with a Honda engine and Villiers engines.
More to come on this. I haven't managed to get a pic unfortunately.

Hi again BB,

In fact mate, there were 29 models of the Model 17 Supercut manufactured by Scott Bonnar at the Thebarton factory in South Australia....

Here's some interesting info on the models...


All good stuff...

Hi Darryl,

Thanks for that. well that then confirms that mine did have the toolbox attached at some stage as those 1 inch band marks around the handle bar suggests that something was attached for quite a number of years and then removed. I definitely think you are correct in saying that it was optional as my electric unit is totally original and they are absolutely no witness marks at all of anything being attached at any stage of its life.

With this model listing it seems almost certain that mine is a 170413 unit. It's amazing of how many configurations that SB made of the Supercut which now makes sense why each one you see is slightly different to another. I guess as they were made for industrial applications there would be so many differing requirements from contractors etc. that they had to make so many variants.
BTW my electric 20 inch is a 170114 model.

Gee I'm loving this old heritage stuff you're digging up. It just adds to the history side of things so much.
BTW I'm involved with a History Committee at an SANFL Football club and thus you can probably understand where I'm coming from.

Keep it coming Darryl.


Cheers,
BB.

Hi BB,

Just a quick note, I will be placing all new information I find also on the Model 17 Supercut in the "Old Soap Box" on the History Forum which will be placed in "Machine History" in due course.

Hi Darryl,

Thanks for that, sadly there's not a lot of info on the site regarding the Model 17. I guess that's because there's not that many of them around (due to their original cost compared to other options back then)and that they were poked at the industrial market opposed to the domestic, thus there's not much discussion on them. Anything you find on them can you please put something on this thread so that I can see that I'm looking for something new you've posted.

Cheers,
BB.

Hi BB,

That will be my pleasure mate!!
Still searching...

Hi Deejay and Grumpy,

I've got a question regarding the Villiers 412 H2 engine that's fitted on the Supercut, I'm just wanting to get the engine up and going before I move house so I'm not getting in too deep with this baby until I fully strip it and restore her in my new workshop, but in the meantime I've pulled the carby off and cleaned it and boy was it covered in crud inside and out.

Now my predicament is the Governor lever and the correct positioning of it on the Crank Governor Shaft. There obviously is a procedure that I'm not aware of as to what one does with the shaft prior to tightening the clamping bolt as shown in the two photos. The shaft can be rotated around 360 degrees so there's a lot of scope there. Please excuse my ignorance but Villiers motors are totally new to me as my small engine experiences are basically with Briggs engines.

BTW the carby has been cleaned as has the filter, new oil to correct level and all attaching screws, nuts and bolts have been cleaned and refitted.

Looking forward to any suggestions

There is a standard way to adjust levers on governor shafts, as you know, and yours looks as if it conforms to that process (just because it has a screwdriver slot in the end of the shaft, and a clamp bolt on the arm). Also, in addition to applying for example to most Honda engines, that process is used on the Villiers 15 series: see page 10 of the owner manual:
http://www.g1jbg.co.uk/autoculto/pdf/villiers15.pdf

It is possible that your governor shaft rotates through 360 degrees because something has gone wrong inside the crankcase, but before taking it apart, it would be way better if one of the Villiers guys on Outdoorking joins this thread. I know Joe Carroll collects Villiers engines, and has done a detailed overhaul on a Mk 12, which may be a close relative of the 412 (I don't really understand their model numbers).

Hi Grump,

I've probably suggested the wrong description using the terminology of 360 degrees. It does come to a stop at each direction of rotation and not just keep rotating endlessly as I might of implied on the post.

Thanks for your help as its always appreciated and not taken for granted.

Cheers,
BB.

That's fine BB. Any Honda governor shaft will rotate through more than 3/4 of a full turn, until the paddle on its far end hits the opposite side of the governor. I suggest you just use those instructions in the Villiers Model 15 handbook: follow the link in my previous post.

Thanks for putting the whole document up there as its already been quite a help to read a bit more about the Villiers way of doing things.

Cheers,
BB

I have a question and that is why do the Supercut catchers have the ability to have the cross bar rod in one of two positions, the more central makes more sense for carrying but the more forward makes no sense at all to me. Maybe Deejay would know ?

Hopefully picking up a couple of old lawn edgers tomorrow with the same engines as my Supercut, apparently one working and the other not. This will help me out immensely for getting the fuel tank back to original on mine and any spare parts I may require during the rebuild.

BTW has anyone on ODK every done a fully original restoration on a Supercut or am I the Pioneer here ?

Cheers,
BB

Hi BB,
Can you please post a pic of the catcher in question, I'm not sure what you mean....

Re: A full restoration of a Model 17 "Supercut", no BB, I think you will be the pioneer here, I do not know of another...and your resto will make a brilliant archive here at ODK. Please make sure you take plenty of pics as you go along...this will be invaluable for anyone in the future contemplating to do the same...or just perhaps disassembling the machine for repairs.

Hi Darryl,

If you scroll back in this thread you'll see the picture I posted up of a machine sitting on a lawn with an outboard mounted crank handle. If you look at the catcher on that you'll see that the bar that is mounted from one side of the catcher to the other is around the central point (balance point) of the catcher. When I got mine the bar was mounted approximately half way between the pictured one and the very front of the catcher. There were no signs of the bar ever being fitted in the central set of holes as absolutely no witness marks are visible.
Hopefully that makes more sense in the meantime.

BTW I have now moved the bar to the balance point as that seems better. I'll post a shot later once the sun comes up.

Cheers,
BB.

Hi BB,

I have just checked my Supercut (electric) catcher, and mine has the rod bolted to it in the central (balance) position and no other holes are present....In my previous (petrol) Model 17, the bar was also in the central position, which leads me to believe that your catcher may have been modified by a previous tenant, for what reason I cannot fathom