OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Finding and Swapping Idle Chatter New (second hand) lathe for the shed.

Grumpy, I have not commented on the bearings as I just dont know, I do know the thread that Gadge put up is about the Hercus 9, an earlier Model than the 260, I thought they had one white and one taper, but like I said i'm not sure, I will get there eventially, I did buy a new .75Kw 1hp 3 phase motor for it.



and a 1.5Kw 2hp VFD



I will have to have the original 2 speed motor pully bored out to 19mm and 6mm keyway slot to suit the new motor but thats no biggy.

Which is all a bit amusing, seeing that the Hercus design very much has its roots in the South Bend 9"!

Something that has been very much forgotten, is that from 1945 until about 1973-4, we had really fierce tariff protection of all local manufacturers, and even assemblers who imported machines in component [CKD= Completely Knocked Down] form.

This is particularly relevant to this forum, as quite a few local manufacturers of garden machinery [not rotary mowers though, as we we had globally competitive makers of those] ceased production or went to importing at that time. Ride on mowers and tillers were a market segment that was especially impacted, that comes to mind.

jonesy, the matter of spindle bearings is one of the traditional spark plugs that has an inflammatory effect on lathe enthusiasts. I have a vague recollection that there may have been a classic period when the Sheraton had a white metal bearing and the Hercus didn't, resulting in even more sound and fury from the Sheraton people than usual.

I've never used a VFD on a lathe, but then I've never used a single-phase lathe except for an interim period of about 3-4 years when I converted a small turret lathe and used it as a general purpose one. Then I inherited the small toolroom lathe that I learned on as a twelve year old, and have been a lot happier ever since. I do think, though, that for a bench lathe like the Hercus, a single phase 1 hp motor is quite adequate. I've never found shifting belts across pulleys to be a big deal, it only takes a moment and doesn't disturb anything. It is a bit tedious if it is a double-reduction system with two successive belts, though.

Gadge, the subject of tariff protection, and what having it for 50 years did for or to Australia, is at least as inflammatory as the great Hercus/Sheraton debate. I expect it will probably come up in the context of the History superforum, as that develops. With the last few chunks of the tariff system's legacy being dismantled right now, it will probably bring out some strong opinions.

Yes Grumpy it has 2 belts for speed, one two position on the motor and the 4 position one in the head stock gears, it is a 3 Phase motor running through the VFD, (single to 3 phase converter) they have to run in Delta configeration, not Star, this motor can be changed to run on both. yes Gadge I thought they were similar to the South Bend as many parts have suitable for both lathe brands.

I have heard that the Hercus and Sheraton are both copies of the South Bend, and I've also heard (from Americans) that the South Bend is better, but I don't recall in what respect it is allegedly better.

It is much better to use a three phase motor where you can, on grounds of reliability and longevity, and perhaps efficiency as well. An ordinary (in Australia) three phase motor is traditionally connected in delta and run on 410 Volts per phase. This is traditional partly because you can then connect it to a star-delta starter so that it starts in star and runs in delta after it gets up to speed. By doing that, it was legal to start a large motor (anything over 5 hp is not permitted to start direct on-line) without an expensive transformer-starter in the days before electronic starters.

However an American three phase motor will be 220 Volts per phase in delta, to suit most American three phase supplies. This means that for 240 Volt single phase export markets, it can be connected in star to accept 400 Volts per phase. After we had a flood here in Melbourne a few years ago and I had a waterlogged and burned-out 2 hp three phase motor on my flat-disk sander/grinder, I fitted a German three phase 240 Volt motor and connected it in star. It is a much better motor than the Australian 2 hp it replaced, and was very cheap at a flea market because nobody wanted a 3 phase 240 Volt motor.

I think your VFD has 220 or 240 Volt 3 phase output because it is made for sale in Europe or the US. Hence it can only run with a 3 phase motor that can accept 240 Volts per phase, and your Chinese motor can: it is designed for 220 Volts per phase in delta, and 380 Volts per phase in star, as it says on its rating plate. In other words, it is the same kind of imported motor as the German one I put on my disc grinder. My disc grinder could run on single phase if I bought a VFD the same as yours, yippee!

Hey there Grumpy you obviously know what your talking about so I'm after a bit of advise, is there any particular brand of dial indicator you (or anyone else) would recomend? metric? imperial? digital-both? 0-1/2" or 0-1"? Brand? reach of magnetic base?

That is a fairly complicated issue jonesy, and you would get a better answer from an experienced, qualified machinist who uses an indicator several times every day. I'll just outline where I am on the subject in the hope that will be better than no information at all.

First, I think unless you are something like a vintage car restorer, there isn't much point in buying imperial instruments these days, they are the past not the future. On the other hand of course if you have an imperial machine, it may be that using a matching indicator will make it easier to avoid translation errors.

Second, to me the current digital instruments tend to be superior to mechanical ones in accuracy but they may be less reliable, and probably will be scrap when a minor fault develops. Also, their mechanical interfaces seem usually to be tin-pot compared with purely mechanical instruments. All this will change eventually, but so far I seem to be seeing plastic bits used as guides and bearings, and pieces of equipment that are not all that oil-proof or scratch-proof.

My personal approach is to keep a small range of indicators that I've had the opportunity to buy cheaply, or have inherited. Essentially there are two generic types of mechanical indicator: plunger type, and lever type. Here are examples of both.

Plunger type:


The plunger type usually has long movement (though of course the one in the picture doesn't, for reasons I'll get to in a moment), and usually has a large dial that is easy to read. Unfortunately they are prone to sticking, and as they get older you have to warm them up by gently working them through their full stroke a few times before you use them. I have to keep several of them, and put them aside when they are a bit sticky, then clean and oil them when I get time, so they can go back into service. The longer movement indicators have more potential to stick than the shorter movement ones.

Another weakness of the plunger indicators is that because of their high-ratio gearing, they have inertia effects. They will not follow even a very slowly moving surface at all well, and will quickly be worn out or damaged if you try. Essentially, they are fairly tricky to use, and have to be handled carefully and not trusted.

Lever type:


The lever type used to be the favourite of machinists who use them constantly for setting things up to run true. They can only operate through a very, very small range of movement, but within that range are rather reliable. Of course a decent machinist who is setting up a job gets it pretty close to true just by eye, and only uses the indicator for the last detailed adjustment, so this can work out quite well.

Magnetic bases are another can of worms. Here are the two I use, one a typical "bought one" and the other a simple home made device that cost nothing and is probably worth what it cost, though it is far more stable than the bought one:




Essentially, bases always have some spring in them, and the more sliding joints they have, the more slack and the more opportunity to slip. Also, they are only as stable as the base they sit on, so you need to clean the surface you put them on rather well. Even after doing all this, I find the stand is usually too springy for the readings to tell you anything at the thousandths of an inch level, through a movement of tenths of an inch. It seems to me that good machinists use clamps, not magnetic stands.

Having said all that, the standards that a good machinist expects and achieves are probably out of the reach of mere mortals - they are certainly a long way out of my reach. Home enthusiasts usually apply different standards, and in my case, struggle to achieve those.