OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Collectors Corner Identification of Particular Machines Victa Model 4 Automatic Specifications

Also a bit off topic but does concern one of the pics you added Unkie, of the first model 5 series 1 donated by Victa.

now if this was the first model 5 series 1, then where are the left hand side edge bolts from all the left over model 4's??????? also I have a toe ring the same as that and was told it was from 1962-63 erea, the early ones were suppose to have the hoop clip on the front that you hooked the spanner on to lift it up and fasten it, I have also seen them with the hoops on the side were the bolts are on this one, I hope i'm wrong as that will mean I have the right one.

What do you mean by the EDGE bolts Jonesy? NO model 4 leftover parts were used on the model 5 Series 1. They were used on the STD/plain model 4.

The sticker is Definately Accurate for at least the most part of the Automatic run. (Definately on the Early Models). They never moved to milperra until 58.

The Image unkie Displayed is An Accurate Model 5 Toe ring. Although most Advert images show a single front tag.

Im aware of 4 variants.

Rotomo 2 2a early 4 bolt on clamps. And 6 small front, side and rear locating tabs.
Special" 1 and/or 2.front locating tags and 2 bolt on rear/side clamps.
Automatic clip on" side skirts.
And your hoop example,which ive seen also. I Initially thought it was a made up job.
But ive seen a few examples over the years that have shown it to be a release...Although ive not seen this example in any Victa Advertisment,as I have the others.


Anyways as you said we are getting a little of topic. Lets finish what hasnt been resolved for now and take it step by step.:)

That line code topic has me baffled. I flicked back through images of all extant Automatics I've seen, and found that the earliest #110107 has line code #3. I checked some others:

* #118746 has line code #3 or #8 (it's a little unclear)
* #117100 line code #2
* Then we have three in the 120,000's with line code #4
Sounds like your production line theory is the most likely candidate, Blue.

And regarding the toe ring, Jonesy - I too have the same toe ring as pictured. It came off an unmolested early run Model 5 series 1, so I reckon that it's a safe bet that this is the right one for the early run Specials.

Regarding the sticker issue, a mate pointed out that in reality there was no need for stickers on the automatics, as all the mixing info is on the back of the badge. Safe to say that any stickers were probably a later addition perhaps?

A little off topic, but it does help clarify the release roll-out for the Special and thus the terminal date for the Automatic, so thought I would post it here. Again, this is from that very generous source I mentioned - yet another excerpt from an internal Victa circular:


So we now know the "Special" was a staged release, which begs the question...what were the other states selling before August '58? Unbadged model 4s?

Missed your post, sorry Blue! Agreed, we are straying a little here, lol!

Yes Unkie,it is very confusing and a topic for a later date as it doesnt directly impact the Automatic,more so the Whole of Victas Early Models.. All the points I made have some validity,but as yet no one has come forward with an accurate Answer.

In regards to the stickers, Your friend has made a valid point and one id thought about previoulsy.
The fact that half the examples have stickers and the others dont doesnt explain conclusively. If a sticker was issued it would at least for some have to be Concord green and red.
Now some examples also show some outline markings where a sticker once was. Again not conclusive. Now to read the badge you would have to get down,crane your neck,hit your head on the bars or read upside down....Or put the handles down to read it...lmao. (Na im just clowning)
Im going with the sticker for now as both mine have them,especially with the original owned one I have. The use of them later is also valid,as trully to read the badge may have been a hassle? Also Every other Victa in the early Era had a visible fuel mix sticker.
Another way to check is Again your parts book. Genrally even stickers have Pt nos,see if there is reference to them in your Parts Cat. Also if you can raise the owner of 10107 and ask,as it appears even his may have a slight shadow or trace/outline of an original sticker. More examples will help,But your friend has a very Credible case at this Point!

Another interesting AD..In regards to your question...The answer is NOTHING:) This is the point of the Ad...they were expanding to now OFFER to other states. FACT: If you wanted a rotomo outside sydney you had to buy it from Sydney. or you bought whatever mower was on offer in that state...Pace, Villiers ETC...Or buy it in Sydney and get it transported to your State:)

Blue, I think Jonesy was getting at the claim that the early Specials used model 4 bases. Again, the only proof we have of this is "so and so said" or "old man claims his mower has been like this from new" ... I would be inclined to think the Powerhouse example must be considered the only tangible and reliable evidence yet presented on this matter - and would lean towards the Special having never used the model 4 base - afterall, why would the company water down and weaken their flagship product with inconsistent production specifications? It just doesn't make sense...

Oh and the quote I posted wasn't an "ad". It was an internal company circular/memorandum, so not seen by the general public. The point I was eluding to was that we already know Victa had retailers in Melbourne and Perth at this point, so were they offloading remainder stock of the Automatic up until the release of the Special? If not, It would suggest that for some 6 months, the only model they had for sale in these states was the Rotomo - unless they still had the Automatic (in some form) for sale. For a company that had aggressively marketed the availability of two models, retailing just a single model in any of its domestic markets seems unlikely.

Hi to All,
This might set the cat amongst the pigeons!

Here is an advert from Victa that lists all 3 models, Automatic, Special and Standard.
Is this the proof we need to prove that the Special was in fact part of the Model 4 range, that has often been the subject of debate?

Lets go back to your ad for the Special and Auto being sold together.

Ok so lets just say for now the auto finished at 128,000. The Ad states that the Special and Auto were being sold together.

From 128,000 to the start of the model 5 series 1 at...The lowest recorded no ive seen is 188,000. But up until now the genral consensus was a start for the model 5 S1 at around the 200,000 mark.

So If the auto and Special were being sold together as the ad states,and the model 5 hadnt been released yet...what were the all the Models Between 128,000 and 200,000 when the ad Clealry states Victa SPECIAL?

This could account for up to 30,000 mowers if you take away 50% as being STDS/Rotomos.

Yes some were watered down plain model 4s with a few bits,directly after the Auto had finishedbut there is no reference or ad showing a plain model 4 offered by victa...So when the Auto finished and they already had a Std/Rotomo on offer...what was the model 4 called before the model 5 S1 statrted?


Now in saying this also The model 5 series 1 Special at the powerhouse may well be The first donated by Victa .There is no dispute to this...BUT What is its engine no? How can we know anything without the engine no? Nor do we have the Release date...What if it is sept or oct of 58? Perhaps to prove once and for all the museum needs to be contacted and the serial given?.... this would solve everything .

Neither of our theories is proof enough for accuracy...So Im not sure which way to go? I am however Happy to agree with your conclusion until it is proved otherwise.

Thanks for that Ad deejay..It does prove all 3 were released together,but what is doesnt show is the base clearly...This is what we are after...A model 4 base in an original ad with a SPECIAL badge. This would clarify its existence.

And Jonesy, My Appologies,as I may have misunderstood you?. The model 5 S1 pictured at the Powerhouse would not have had any model 4 parts as it came directly after the Automatic and Model 4. They are in no way related as their bases are different.

The base that would have come with leftover parts would have been the model 4 or Chassis 4) The same base style of the Automatic,that was continued on after The Autos Run ended. A Plain,Stripped or waterd down Automatic is the best way to describe it Hope this makes more sense?

SN #200,000

Well that number is spot on confirming what Blue has said all along, it also has another fine example of the leather starter (that has not been taken into concideration when talking about starters) it is identical to the starter that my early Auto came with and was told by the bloke I got it off that the original owner had told him that "it still has the original leather starter" so this is something else I have never heard discussed or even concidered as being standard equipment???, the handle on mine has just been chewed a bit by a dog but is identical to the one above.


food for thought.

Yep, Blue was on the ball with this one. I have a Model 5 version 1 with a serial in the 189,000 so it appears this "first off the production line" was more likely retained simply for being the 200,000 mower produced.

Regarding you pull starter, what a survivor! Dog chewed or not, it is probably one of only a few in existence!

Speaking of Accessories, here's my latest acquisition for my Auto:

Very nice work there Unki, now tell me as I have been thinking about what Blue said about this spanner having flat ends on the bar, but what I thought then it would not be able to have been used for the height adjuster?? so does it have the flat part on the inside of the tube to stop the bar comming out?? because thats what I did when I made the bar for mine. As far as I know, that spanner is a a first, and looks in good original condition too well done again.

Not sure on the bar but will let you know as soon as I can check it over. As far as I can tell it's the real deal, possibly the first I've seen, as it is uniformly galvanised and looks accurate - fingers crossed!

I meant to ask you, have you power washed your #125166 yet? I'm curious to know if the axle housings showed any evidence of having been painted like the earlier Autos..

And while we are straying of topic, what were Victa thinking when they did away with the left side skirt bolts but decided to retain the front and rear flap retainers in the base? I wonder if they had not given up hope of getting the predicta set up working properly, Hmmmmm.

No have not done anything to it as yet, but could check it out a little better and get back to you.

Aso all Auto's must have finished their run before 58 cause the series 1 there has the Concord sticker on it. Sorry a lot of you and Blues time line stuff has not sunk in properly yet but have you come to any firm start of and finish of for the model 4, be it an Auto or a special, just any maodel 4 in other words?

Ahh cool, I look forward to hearing about it.


I think the edger slot and adjacent bolts were retained in the hope of one day making the edger "non-lethal" and as you said, the hope of retaining the Predicta option also played a part in the Version 1 base design. From what I can gather, Mr. Richardson was not one to give up easily, and probably hoped to produce a mower that could be accessorised not unlike a car. In the vein of Henry Ford, the guy really was a stubborn industrialist who had supreme confidence in the viability of his inventive skills - even if they had "teathing" problems lol

Start time is definitely August/September '57, with a serial starting around 110,000, but a finish date is what we are searching for. Allot of overlap appears between the models,but the Auto was last advertised 13 March '58. So only 7 short months on sale...how long the Auto parts continued to be used? Still to be determined...

Very nice aquisition Unkie...I WILL go so far as to say its the Real Deal!. Jonesy My mention of flat ends was merely an assumption. Id been told may times of the Autos being a straight bar,but never seen one in real life. Mine as I mentioned is just a made 1/4inch bar . My assumption was that it may have had pressed ends to keep in in one piece so you wouldnt lose the bar. But since next to none exist,Id say over time they just got lost,thats why all the later models have bent ends .Either way Im happy cause I have this bar in my stash of goodies,and can now use it,With ceratainty its correct.

Now with Unkies Diagram and Example,Id say its time to rest this one up As Case Closed !

Your rope starter is correct in style Jonesy! whether its been made up or original,it is the type they used from the Rotomo right through. (although at the risk of offence,This could not be the original rope off your Auto,as the previous owner stated,As they Did NOT come with a rope starter option...Auto had Recoil only). In any case its still a coorect style example .I have a few of these,most are nylon rope now but I have one with old style cord that came with an original family owned Model 5S1...I like the Dog chewed look anyways. I can Just Imagine old man starting the mower and then the dog nicking of with its new chew toy!! lols.

As for the Edger,Who really knows. As far as im aware a patent existed,but was to dangerous to put into production. As unkie says,Ol man Victa was a very determined man. Also With production going so fast it was put on the back burner. But Im positive it was still in the back of his mind. Especially since it was re explored. on the Sheerline Model 6/9 chassis

Domt worry jonesy we will get there with a definate on the elusive start finish dates As the gaps keep getting smaller and smaller....

Two quick things to keep exploring...
1:What were the remaining Non Auto Model 4s Truly equipped with before the model 5 S1 Started?...ONLY Automatic left overs( Badges Fuel Taps,Groove cover nuts and of course bases) Or A Special badge somewhere in the mix?.
2: What was the Month/Date the Model 5 S1 Was realeased And what Serial did it truly start with?... A point to note is...If this truly is the first model 5 S1 released,would you not want your First 5 S1/flagship to be fully equipped or with at least a recoil starter and screen? The donation of this early 200,000th Victa would be given in my opinion as a True milestoone of Victas ever growing Success...Just something to ponder over:)


Great topics and discussion on the spanner and starter guys! Awesome