OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Collectors Corner Identification of Particular Machines Victa Model 4 Automatic Specifications

Woohoo! we are moving! Unkies thread so he can choose a title,but yours sounds pretty good to me.

"Victa Model 4 Automatic/Predicta Specificaton Guide with release dates" ?

"Everything you need to know about the Victa Automatic"

And just like the best selling books..."Dummies Guide to the Victa Automatic"

Or the Risque version...."What mother never told you about the Victa Automatic"...


The first two are my Contributions Deejay...And thankyou for taking this on

Love the last one about my mother lol. I don't mind Deejay,I'm the newcomer to all this, so I'll leave it up to you fellas to decide. I'm sure that whatever form it takes will be an improvement on the current shambles, so fire away

Actually Unkie, its not a shambles...just a little disjointed....but all can be put right....be patient, and this thread will be, with Mal, one of the best here!
Trust me!! .....well with the best intentions then!!

Come on Mal.....your turn!!
Let's get this new thread happening!!

Who what where???? Im lost lols. Whats my turn? Has the new thread started? did we pick a name? And where are all our members examples? hmmmmmm? More more mooooore,must have more Pleeeeease! I offered four Excellent examples he he. I like option 4 also. And yes Unkie,Mother has many secrets! Lmao.

Victa Model 4 Automatic/Predicta History & Variations.

my 2c worth, or option 4

I like that Jonesy....

or

"Victa Model 4 Automatic/Predicta History,Specifications,Timeline and Variations".

Although I was more refering to Memebrs input of info and their models,serial and Images...We need as many examples as possible,with a serial register too.

My Two Fiddy,s worth

Thanks guys.... I like No 4 as well....
but in all seriousness, I think it is between Mal's No 1 and Jonesy's choice.
I have put up a poll, so those interested can have their say;
let's see what happens.....

Thread Title single choice
	Victa Model 4 Automatic/Predicta Specificaton Guide with release dates
	Victa Model 4 Automatic/Predicta History & Variations
Votes accepted starting: 11/08/13 02:42 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

In the long run it does not really matter what it is called, could just be (Victa model 4)as long as the info ends up in one spot and can save a lot of roaming around to find it. Lets just go with Mals suggestion to get the ball rolling.

Hi to All,
As it turns out the maximum characters that you can use in the title is 34....so I had to shorten it unfortunately.

Jonesy, the reason I put up the poll is to get input from the people that are, like yourself, contributing to this archive.
If you wish me to make decisions on my own, I will.

So now that these threads aren't in the Victa section, do we need to wait for more changes before posting anything further? Can we still discuss restoration issues on these threads or is that for the Victa section?

Dont know Unkie, but it looks like a lot of the other info will need to be bought into this thread manually, so I'm going to start by posting a few pic's of my Auto's and some of the other details about fuel taps, tank cowles, air cleaners, slit/no slit etc, etc,etc.
So here are my Autos.




The next one.




the next one.






the last photo shows a small slit in the front axel housing, but after looking at my other axel housings this one seems to have been done by a hacksaw, it does not go in as far as others or be as neat, it is crooked and at an angle.
last one.

[img]https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2013/08/full-6801-12176-front_close.jpg[/img]
[img]https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2013/08/full-6801-12177-engine_no.jpg[/img]
[img]https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2013/08/full-6801-12178-air_cleaner.jpg[/img]
[img]https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/uploads/usergals/2013/08/full-6801-12179-carby_fuel_tap.jpg[/img]
This last one seems to have had the later model engine as by the No and the wrong engine coweling and tank rubber under the strap as well as later fuel tap etc.

Mal, are you talking all, or just the Automatics? or just the Automatics with predicta like the green fuel caps?? as every starter handle rubber I have seen has been black??

No Jonesy, The Auto only:) This boot was green only for the Auto, just as the fuel cap was green under Avocado and only used on this model.The height adjust rod rubber was green on All models. Your black applies to the reintoduction of the similar starter used on the model 5 series 2. Id say the availability of the black was the amended pt no and replacment for the superceded Green. Hence the reason you may have seen them on Autos:) also check the starter the black boot is on...It will have the locknut and visible spring pin. Making it most likely to be off a special more so than an auto:) but of course the owner may have replaced it in service or failure over time.

And BTW Jonesy....4 autos is just pure greed..not to mention Showing off! What a Tease! Lmao!

Hi Jonesy, here are the other pics form your earlier post....I don't know why they don't show up in that post....maybe something to do with the maximum number of pics in the one post.

And yes Unkie, you can post here, I will sort it out manually as we go along.

A couple of observations I've been thinking over:

* They stopped painting axle housing covers somewhere between #118746 and #122195.

* There appears to be no consistency with the number stamped on the lower half of the crank case, ranging from 1 to 4 with no particular pattern as far as I can see.

* Not a single example appears to have had tank or cowling stickers - with the exception of two examples (Jonesy's last one pictured above and one almost identical that I've seen and is from a similar serial run). That sticker as it appears, is also seen on Model 2A photos posted in the Rotomo thread. Significant or just wrong cowling?

* As yet, there appears to be no confirmation as to which choke is actually correct. We probably need to disregard assumptions of this nature until we have seen enough examples to refer to.

* Jonesy has too many Automatics, and needs to give me one

Well I agree with the last point Unkiemonk. Lol!!! (Except I want one)
Seriously why do I struggle with finding one automatic, (even standard model 4) and Jonsey racks them in like model 5's???

Also I thought there was no stickers on the automatics??? I'd also like some documents on the chokes done next, Ill see if I can contribute...

The choke/filter is absolute. Same as roto 1, 2, 2a. What isnt is the colour of the victa imprint on the top cover...red or black? Or the style..smileyface" or plain Victa?Ive been told many times that the black was for Automatic and red came back somewhere near the end of the run and contined on through model 5 S1. I will ask again for confirmation and something other than verbal proof.

I agree unkie with the Avocado housings, I know the later autos were plain, what I didnt realise is they went painted for so long.

We do know slits were introduced, just not how far into the run. I assumed it was early rather than later, due to the height changing due to vibration. Thus the slit and nut were introduced.

The early model 4 ran a line code of 2.....4 for the later versions.
Now there are a few people who claim to know the single digit code., but refuse to share.all the experts Ive asked do not know for sure. For a few years ive been trying to work this out. I have a solid theory that I will share later. Since this is a topic that covers all mowersi dont think it has preference here.
Through examples ive seen early autos code 2 and later autos and specials are code 4.
Existing codes are Roto 1 majority are nil. Roto 2 ...2, 6, 8
Model 2a 2...Model 3...3. Model 4...2, 4. Model 5...4, 5. Model 6....0, 2. This is general coding, there are variations.
Now some believe the codes 2, 3, 4 and 5 applied to options for the model 5 but I find this unlikely since, many codes are the same as their corresponding model. Im of the opinion the codes that corespond with thier model are base codes for a std mower, alternative codes are for options. The other thery was the place of build/state, eg code 2, 3, 4, 5 Sydney. And another was they were production line codes.
So as yet no concrete evidence for this.
This shoul give you some more food for thought. And as unkie says will need ongoing research. I will try and get a definate answer on the choke colour asap. If your head aint messed, it will be now...ha ha!

Thanks Deejay for fixing the pics, I forget about how many photos and get a bit carried away and if I dont keep going I lose were I'm at
I also think some of the differences/variations should be (sort of dealt with) with the information we have now. then move to the next, such as air/choke then something else like slit/no slit or whatever, then at the end of it all the information collected could be summerised into as best we can guess as fact and that that is still to be determined.
I was on the understanding the first Autos had a tank sticker with green writting and with the Concord factory not Milperra?????

Also a bit off topic but does concern one of the pics you added Unkie, of the first model 5 series 1 donated by Victa.

now if this was the first model 5 series 1, then where are the left hand side edge bolts from all the left over model 4's??????? also I have a toe ring the same as that and was told it was from 1962-63 erea, the early ones were suppose to have the hoop clip on the front that you hooked the spanner on to lift it up and fasten it, I have also seen them with the hoops on the side were the bolts are on this one, I hope i'm wrong as that will mean I have the right one.

What do you mean by the EDGE bolts Jonesy? NO model 4 leftover parts were used on the model 5 Series 1. They were used on the STD/plain model 4.

The sticker is Definately Accurate for at least the most part of the Automatic run. (Definately on the Early Models). They never moved to milperra until 58.

The Image unkie Displayed is An Accurate Model 5 Toe ring. Although most Advert images show a single front tag.

Im aware of 4 variants.

Rotomo 2 2a early 4 bolt on clamps. And 6 small front, side and rear locating tabs.
Special" 1 and/or 2.front locating tags and 2 bolt on rear/side clamps.
Automatic clip on" side skirts.
And your hoop example,which ive seen also. I Initially thought it was a made up job.
But ive seen a few examples over the years that have shown it to be a release...Although ive not seen this example in any Victa Advertisment,as I have the others.


Anyways as you said we are getting a little of topic. Lets finish what hasnt been resolved for now and take it step by step.:)

That line code topic has me baffled. I flicked back through images of all extant Automatics I've seen, and found that the earliest #110107 has line code #3. I checked some others:

* #118746 has line code #3 or #8 (it's a little unclear)
* #117100 line code #2
* Then we have three in the 120,000's with line code #4
Sounds like your production line theory is the most likely candidate, Blue.

And regarding the toe ring, Jonesy - I too have the same toe ring as pictured. It came off an unmolested early run Model 5 series 1, so I reckon that it's a safe bet that this is the right one for the early run Specials.

Regarding the sticker issue, a mate pointed out that in reality there was no need for stickers on the automatics, as all the mixing info is on the back of the badge. Safe to say that any stickers were probably a later addition perhaps?

A little off topic, but it does help clarify the release roll-out for the Special and thus the terminal date for the Automatic, so thought I would post it here. Again, this is from that very generous source I mentioned - yet another excerpt from an internal Victa circular:


So we now know the "Special" was a staged release, which begs the question...what were the other states selling before August '58? Unbadged model 4s?

Missed your post, sorry Blue! Agreed, we are straying a little here, lol!

Yes Unkie,it is very confusing and a topic for a later date as it doesnt directly impact the Automatic,more so the Whole of Victas Early Models.. All the points I made have some validity,but as yet no one has come forward with an accurate Answer.

In regards to the stickers, Your friend has made a valid point and one id thought about previoulsy.
The fact that half the examples have stickers and the others dont doesnt explain conclusively. If a sticker was issued it would at least for some have to be Concord green and red.
Now some examples also show some outline markings where a sticker once was. Again not conclusive. Now to read the badge you would have to get down,crane your neck,hit your head on the bars or read upside down....Or put the handles down to read it...lmao. (Na im just clowning)
Im going with the sticker for now as both mine have them,especially with the original owned one I have. The use of them later is also valid,as trully to read the badge may have been a hassle? Also Every other Victa in the early Era had a visible fuel mix sticker.
Another way to check is Again your parts book. Genrally even stickers have Pt nos,see if there is reference to them in your Parts Cat. Also if you can raise the owner of 10107 and ask,as it appears even his may have a slight shadow or trace/outline of an original sticker. More examples will help,But your friend has a very Credible case at this Point!

Another interesting AD..In regards to your question...The answer is NOTHING:) This is the point of the Ad...they were expanding to now OFFER to other states. FACT: If you wanted a rotomo outside sydney you had to buy it from Sydney. or you bought whatever mower was on offer in that state...Pace, Villiers ETC...Or buy it in Sydney and get it transported to your State:)

Blue, I think Jonesy was getting at the claim that the early Specials used model 4 bases. Again, the only proof we have of this is "so and so said" or "old man claims his mower has been like this from new" ... I would be inclined to think the Powerhouse example must be considered the only tangible and reliable evidence yet presented on this matter - and would lean towards the Special having never used the model 4 base - afterall, why would the company water down and weaken their flagship product with inconsistent production specifications? It just doesn't make sense...

Oh and the quote I posted wasn't an "ad". It was an internal company circular/memorandum, so not seen by the general public. The point I was eluding to was that we already know Victa had retailers in Melbourne and Perth at this point, so were they offloading remainder stock of the Automatic up until the release of the Special? If not, It would suggest that for some 6 months, the only model they had for sale in these states was the Rotomo - unless they still had the Automatic (in some form) for sale. For a company that had aggressively marketed the availability of two models, retailing just a single model in any of its domestic markets seems unlikely.

Hi to All,
This might set the cat amongst the pigeons!

Here is an advert from Victa that lists all 3 models, Automatic, Special and Standard.
Is this the proof we need to prove that the Special was in fact part of the Model 4 range, that has often been the subject of debate?

Lets go back to your ad for the Special and Auto being sold together.

Ok so lets just say for now the auto finished at 128,000. The Ad states that the Special and Auto were being sold together.

From 128,000 to the start of the model 5 series 1 at...The lowest recorded no ive seen is 188,000. But up until now the genral consensus was a start for the model 5 S1 at around the 200,000 mark.

So If the auto and Special were being sold together as the ad states,and the model 5 hadnt been released yet...what were the all the Models Between 128,000 and 200,000 when the ad Clealry states Victa SPECIAL?

This could account for up to 30,000 mowers if you take away 50% as being STDS/Rotomos.

Yes some were watered down plain model 4s with a few bits,directly after the Auto had finishedbut there is no reference or ad showing a plain model 4 offered by victa...So when the Auto finished and they already had a Std/Rotomo on offer...what was the model 4 called before the model 5 S1 statrted?


Now in saying this also The model 5 series 1 Special at the powerhouse may well be The first donated by Victa .There is no dispute to this...BUT What is its engine no? How can we know anything without the engine no? Nor do we have the Release date...What if it is sept or oct of 58? Perhaps to prove once and for all the museum needs to be contacted and the serial given?.... this would solve everything .

Neither of our theories is proof enough for accuracy...So Im not sure which way to go? I am however Happy to agree with your conclusion until it is proved otherwise.

Thanks for that Ad deejay..It does prove all 3 were released together,but what is doesnt show is the base clearly...This is what we are after...A model 4 base in an original ad with a SPECIAL badge. This would clarify its existence.

And Jonesy, My Appologies,as I may have misunderstood you?. The model 5 S1 pictured at the Powerhouse would not have had any model 4 parts as it came directly after the Automatic and Model 4. They are in no way related as their bases are different.

The base that would have come with leftover parts would have been the model 4 or Chassis 4) The same base style of the Automatic,that was continued on after The Autos Run ended. A Plain,Stripped or waterd down Automatic is the best way to describe it Hope this makes more sense?

SN #200,000