OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions On Cox Ride On Mower Frames Cox compact tractor starter?

Hi All
Been awhile but now I've bought a Cox compact tractor 09J6 to play with. I'm trying to get the starter working and can't seem to get power to the starter. I've put a new solenoid on and just to check the, r/h pole has 3 wires,1 to switch with fuse, 1 to battery and 1 to alternator. L/h pole has 1 wire to the bottom of the starter. Smaller pole on solenoid has a blue wire to Ign switch. Is this right?
Also with this setup I get 12v at red wire at the switch and r/h pole. When I turn the key I get 0.5v at blue wire and nothing at the l/h solenoid pole.
Any suggestions?? Faulty switch or maybe wired wrong?
BTW All safety switches are bridged or disconnected.............

Hi Steve, you can already guess the first part of what I'm going to say: I won't help you to get your machine operating without its safety switches, but I'm happy to help you get it working with the switches operating.

Here is the circuit diagram:


Here is a list of the numbered parts from the circuit diagram:


Can you now translate please, changing what you said in your first post to refer to wires, parts and junctions shown on the circuit diagram using Cox's numbering system.

Sorry a bit long winded. I'll get some photos to explain it better..
Safety switches were disconnected by previous owner so that's another job that has to be done..

Thanks Steve, if you can relate a series of photos to the corresponding items on the circuit diagram, we should be able to both speak in the same language. If the previous owner disabled the safety system, more likely than not he/she adulterated the whole wiring system. That seems to have happened to most of the ride-ons with problems we hear about at Outdoorking. The traditional tenant's motto: "If it still works a bit, I obviously haven't done any harm, and I'm probably making it better. I'd better reef out a few more wires."

You may turn out to have to do a fair amount of re-wiring to make it exactly like the Cox circuit diagram shows. Note that they give the wire colours in the parts list I posted. Returning the machine exactly to specification will make it much easier for you to trace faults in the future, as well as now. However please don't make undisclosed changes while we are discussing it, or we will inevitably go around in circles and work at cross-purposes.

Your description of the wires to and from the solenoid is approximately the way it should be. The right side terminal on the solenoid is its main input point - its high current positive terminal. It is being used as a junction point for positive leads, so it connects to the battery, the alternator output lead (after the diode in that lead or at the alternator) and it provides the low current positive feed to the starter switch, where it connects to the B (Battery) terminal. The starter switch only handles low current, to pull in the solenoid, which provides the high current switching for the starter motor. Cox's circuit diagram does not show a fuse in the feed to the starter switch, so its inclusion is probably a tenant's improvement. You said you had 12 V at the starter switch - presumably the B terminal. If there is still 12 V at B when the switch is in the start position, the fuse does not seem to be causing your current problem.

The left side terminal on the solenoid is its high-current output terminal which feeds the starter motor: from there a heavy wire runs directly to the starter motor's positive terminal. That wire is only "hot" when the solenoid is activated and the starter should be cranking.

The bottom wire to the solenoid is the one that activates it (makes it close its main contacts). That wire comes from the S (Starter) terminal of the starter switch. It passes through a couple of safety microswitches on its way.

When the starter switch is activated the bottom terminal of the solenoid should be at battery voltage, which will be a bit less than 12 Volts when the starter is cranking. If you only have 0.5 V there, that is not nearly enough to activate the solenoid. Check the voltage at the other end of that wire (the S terminal on the starter switch). If you have full voltage there, you have a problem in the connecting wire between the two points, most likely at one of the two microswitches it runs through on the way. On the other hand if you have 12 Volts at terminal B but only 0.5 V at terminal S, the starter switch has failed.

Of course with insufficient voltage applied to the solenoid's activating coil it does not close its contacts, and there is no voltage on its output (left side) terminal.

Hi all
I have recently been given a one owner 09M7, B&S 12hp engine, electric start, which I am recommissioning. It hadn't run for 8 years since the owner died, when it was running fine. Had a stuck open exhaust valve, now sorted. I put a new battery in and it spins over nicely - or rather, it did.
Ran great for about half an hour and then conked out. Clearly electrical as when I try to start with the ignition switch, nothing happens.
I found the above posts illuminating which is why I am posting here, as the wiring degram is the same as for the 09J6.
Mine has a fuse in the wire from the live side of the solenoid to the B terminal, and that's fine. always has power to B with ignition off or on.
I have 2 questions:
What's the deal with the micro switches? Mine has 3, all of which I have tested:
1. under the seat - normally on and therefore earthed to chassis and sitting on seat opens the circuit.
2. foot switch which is normally open and you close it with your foot.
3. the cutter lever micro switch which is 4 pole, with on normally open and closed when the lever is back, and one normally closed which opens with lever back. I am unable to tell which is which on the wiring diagram, which looks like a kid drew it.
I removed the ignition switch to test it. It has 5 terminals (G, M, B, S and L), but only 4 wires, with L left vacant.. I suspect it has failed as when i test in the 3 different modes I get the following results:
1. switch off, with power to B - all other terminals dead.
2. switch on - power only to L (the unused terminal). All others dead.
3. starter position - power only to S, all others dead.
I would have thought that there should have been at least one other terminal live in the "on" position as otherwise the on position is doing nothing - and if it's already off , you wouldn't be able to stop it by turning off the ignition.
Any help gratefully received.
Thanks
Doug

Hi Doug,
I'm not going to go into too much detail but as these are magneto it is very simple. Sounds like you have some idea as you say the micro switches are ok. First thing is to check that the battery is charged. Then check that the battery leads are good and connected. Remove them and clean them. The negative battery lead from the battery to the chassis, the lead from the body of the motor to the chassis, it may not have this lead but check for it and make sure the connections are good and clean. Then you have to check the positive lead from the battery to the solonoid and the lead from the solonoid to the starter motor. If these are all good then you need to check the wire from the ignition switch ( S ) to the solonoid, this will only be a smaller wire. If all the above tests out the when you turn the switch to start you should have power to the solonoid and the solonoid should snap shut and put power directly to the starter motor. Let us know how you get on

Hi Doug

By you're testing of your switch it sounds perfect. They are a much more complicated switch than you think. Small engines do not require 12v+ to run, (unless modern not youre case.) the switch will only send power to S for start, L in on for lights/accessories. The switch has G which is ground, so in the Off position it will link M (magneto) to ground to kill the engine. otherwise in on/start that should be open.

Since you appear to have a multimeter, start tracing voltage, it will start at the battery and go through a fuse to B. if you have power there, start tracing S. It will go through 2 of the switches before it reaches youre solenoid. The idea is you can't crank unless you're blades are disengaged and foot is on the safety button so you cant drive.

The seat switch will kill the engine, the foot switch will stop it cranking, and the blade switch will stop it from cranking as well as kill the engine if you are not on the seat.

Youre switches may be Ok, however that does not rule out a broken wire somewhere. I would just try for a start bridging the starter solenoid with a thick screwdriver (will Arc hence thick) and see if it turns over, then you will know the starter motor is ok. then work youre way through. Maybe also try a new piece of wire just between battery + and the solenoid terminal to test the solenoid itself is ok.

Thanks Norm and Nath for this advice; much clearer now. I did find a broken wire which was from seat switch to ground, and thought this was the smoking gun. but I think it had been broken all along as I was able to start and run the engine previously without being on the seat.
I guess for tuning etc you need to disconnect seat switch earth or you couldn't have it running without being on it. Tricky to get to the main jet screw when sitting on it.
I'll look at it again later today and report back.
Cheers and thanks again - what a great resource this is.
Doug

Hi Doug,
going back over your original post there may be something going on that we are missing, the fact it was running and stopped does not point to anything electrical apart from the kill switch wire earthing out somewhere. This should have nothing to do with the fact that it won't start when you say at least it did spin over freely. If the motor is turning over but won't start then I go back to the kill switch wire shorted, but if it is not turning over then I go back to my original post and go through the battery connections

Thanks again guys.
I love a good mystery - NOT.
Checked ignition switch, as predicted, when in "run" position, M and G have continuity.
Put it back in and it started first go. I think the cutting out was because I had the idle too slow and I was on a slope, maybe fuel was missing the pickup.
The fact the starter wouldn't turn over was a separate thing.
And now it's working just fine without touching anything else means there's nothing to find at present.
I hate intermittent electrical problems.
I have also added some data to the wiring diagram so I know whats what in future. May assist others too (please review to ensure I have it right).
Thanks again
Doug

Love a good ending Doug, just pulling the wires off and putting them back on the switch could have been all that was needed

Thanks Norm.
Still got some weird issues with the starting. I cannot get the starter to spin if I try starting it when sitting on the seat. So I get off, hold the foot switch with my hand and it generally will start. That's happened a number of times.
Then, after about an hour of very satisfying mowing, I switched off to clear some palm fronds. tried to start and wouldn't. dead as a dodo. Fiddled with the cutter switch and finally got it to start.. I'm wondering if the cutter switch is a bit dodgy - but that would not explain the on seat/off seat issue. Also wonder if the plunger on the cutter switch is depressed sufficiently by the cutter lever.
Main thing was I got to mow with it for the first time. I really like the rugged clever simple design.
After pushing my Super 24 around for years (on a sloping block) my first ride on experience was wonderful.
Doug

Hi Doug
what I would do is bridge out with a bit of wire one switch at a time and that way you might be able to establish which switch is problematic, always difficult if you have more than one switch faulty. Just be careful when yo have the switches bypassed, they are there for a reason, With a Cox and a 24 you have it all covered.

It sounds like someone has monkeyed with the wiring for one thing as sitting on the seat is not supposedly affect the starting; unless, there is a loose connection as the seat switch according the diagram posted only affects the magneto.

To me it sounds like someone has wired the seat switch into the starter circuit provided the seat switch is a N/C switch.

As it refusing after use of the deck it does sounds like a bad PTO switch. They do mess up this as they don't make contact due either dirt or wear.

Side note in reference to following comment.
If this engine has a magneto ignition system they are normally not conducting in RUN position as here they are use here to kill the magnetos. Which would needing to connected in the off position. This indicated by the seat switch being grounded on one side.

Now this all depends if I reading the wiring diagram correctly. It leaves a lot to guess at when compared our normal wiring diagrams here.

Hi All
After a year of disuse I have been using my 09M7 with B&S 280000 series motor 12 HP.
Had one of those weird coincidences where the mower conked out and then wouldn't turn on the starter. Look at the wiring diagram and there's only one switch that could account for both issues, the cutter switch which is a double throw switch operating in the starter circuit and the magneto-to-earth cut out.
In the end it wasn't that at all but 2 quite separate things - it was out of fuel and a wire had been dislodged from the foot switch (normally open in the ignition-to-solenoid circuit). Whatever caught it had almost knocked the switch out of its hole as well - luckily the body was not damaged.
Anyway, this prompted me to complete my investigations into the wiring circuits on my particular machine. I have now updated the diagram with wire colours and noted that in one circuit, the blue wire from the "S" terminal on the ignition switch goes first to the cutter switch, and then to the foot switch (Dark blue/white stripe).
There is also a red/pale blue stripe wire from the small terminal on the solenoid that runs to the alternator.
Updated wiring diagram attached.

I think what follows may be more useful than my modifications to the wiring doiagram above.
Cox 09M7 wiring circuits
A = Alternator
B = Battery
M = Magneto
S = Solenoid (for starter)
1. Ignition off – shorts out M and G (magneto and ground)
2. Ignition on – opens M and G, power to L for lights (not fitted)
3. Ign Start position – circuit for starter motor. Cutter handle back
– Power from B to S
– S to cutter switch No 1
– cutter switch No 1 to Foot switch
– Foot switch to solenoid
– Solenoid then sends power to starter.
4. When cutter handle back – ie cutter disengaged, 2 microswitches in one switch. Starter circuit closed (cutter sw 1) , magneto cut sw 2 open. Means can start with bum off seat. As there are 2 switches in series (seat and cutter) and both need to be closed to cut (ie earth) magneto.
5. When cutter handle forward, cutter sw 2 closed, seat circuit closed ( so when get off seat, sw closes and shorts out magneto circuit) and start circuit open, so cant engage starter when cutter engaged.
6. other safety circuit – stops mower if cutter engaged and bum off seat
-
Wires and circuits
7. wires to components
7.1 foot switch
(a) red/pale blue (to solenoid)
(b) dark blue-white – cutter switch
7.2 Seat Switch
(a) Green in (from cutter switch 2)
(b) White out (earthed)
7.3 Cutter Switch 1
(a) Green – magneto
(b) Green – seat switch
7.4 Cutter Switch 2
(a) dark blue-white (from foot switch)
(b) blue – ignition
7.5 Solenoid
(a) separate pin connector red/pale blue (to foot switch) – this is the activation wire for the main solenoid switch
(b) main terminals
(i) Top terminal – heavy red wire to starter
(ii) Bottom terminal –
(A) red to fuse to ignition B
(B) red to plug beside engine which becomes 2 wires
(C) heavy red from battery
8. Circuits through safety switches
8.1 starter circuit (activates solenoid). This can only be activated with cutter handle up (cutter switch 1) and foot switch depressed. These are normally open and when both are closed starter can be energised.
(a) Ignition S (blue) to cutter switch 1
(b) Cutter switch 1 (dark blue/white) to foot switch
(c) Foot switch (red/pale blue) to separate pin on solenoid, activates starter switch
8.2 Magneto short out circuit – this circuit is completed when rider is off seat with cutter engaged. With cutter engaged Cutter switch 2 is closed but with rider on, seat switch (normally closed) is open. Getting off seat closes circuit to earth.
(a) Magneto to Cutter Switch 2 (green)
(b) Cutter switch 2 to seat switch (green)

Hi guys i have just brought a cox that had issues with the starter circuit blowing the fuse all the time i have now traced all the wiring and connected them to the right pins on the switch but i can not find a wire to ground out the magneto anyone know where i should look

Hi offrdn, welcome here.
The kill switch wire is a black wire that comes out from under the engine cowl/ fan shroud. If you can't find it you will have to remove the engine cowl and then you can see the coil and the kill switch wire comes from the coil