OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Briggs & Stratton Engines Briggs and Stratton 802 engine issues

PG, when sourcing bits the first step is to look at the online store, and see if you can find what you want there. I think I suggested in another thread that you post pictures of your carburetor and governor, because at present I don't know which one it is.
With regard to governor springs, I believe all of the springs B&S use for this are close-coiled tension springs, so unless the hooks on the ends have been damaged, you can find out the correct free length just by squeezing a stretched spring axially until it becomes close-coiled again. You can't repair a stretched spring, but you can find out what it looked like before it was wrecked. If you don't have the old spring, you can probably find the correct one in the on-line store.
Never change the length of a governor spring: use it in its original state. Note that sometimes the base of a B&S governor - the stamped steel part that one end of the governor spring hooks onto - gets bent. When this happens, just bend it back to its exact original shape. If the governor doesn't work, you will only make it worse by trying to redesign it. It works when it is restored to its original condition.

Ooooooooooh Darnnnnnn!!! Started the 45 this morning after oiling shafts and WD40 to blade faces, and I guess my fault because I dont have the choke lever, the governor may not be working when choked, so it reved up a but higher than normal for a few seconds under (manual) choke and BANG!!! Now no compression whatsoever when you pull the winder - crankshaft just runs on with no load against it.

You experts out there - what is likely to be the problem? If the main bearing or its housing had broken I would have though the c/shaft may have jammed or given some metal noises. Similar if the piston compression ring had gone. What about valves? Maybe not closing? Not sure the design of these valves and how they work.

Could the cranshaft key have broken? But would that just affect spark timing not the valve openning/closing? (CLUE: recently on stopping the engine has given one "POP" back fire at the end).

WHERE TO START?

Suggestions PLEASE fellow Scotty's with B&S engines???

Sorry .... for using caps on last post and before. Now have seen your guidance on this. Again sorry. Am a bit upset at present about my 45 engine disaster. Especially as the diplomat needs work to but running abd useful. Maybe its time to fit a Honda, but last time I checked they were $400-$500 plus fiddling about a bit. Just a pensioner these days so that sort of money is not possible. Any other ideas?

If its any use to members with 45 who dont have a parts 'explosion" and listing, http://www.midlandpower.co.uk/downloads/partLists/845158.pdf is a link to the parts for the 2003 print for model Rover 45 Reel Mower that they appear to be still selling in the UK. It looks almost identical with a few minor/superficial changes.

I wonder what these UK spare parts availability is for that model? Might email them an check on the height knob etc. $1 = 61 pence these days but freight would be a bit much I expect.

On that point, Deejay the selling prices seem to be GBP900 - 1100 on the various UK sites which now is about $1500 - $1700, of course excluding freight. Maybe if UK or SA are making these (they might have bought up the old Rover tooling & name rights for just the 45) maybe someone here (Bruce?)could be interested in bringing them in - in sea container quantities might be possible.

From my days in freight, I reckon that a 20' container would hold about 100 crated units. Still a big commitment for someone even if they cost $800 -$1000 wholesale. And then of course you would have to keep a percentage of spare parts for warranty. Still may be worth a follow up to the Uk by someone with the interest and the money.

Sounds like you blew the engine up. If you want to fix it you'll have to strip it down completely to find the problem, could be a cracked piston or timimg gear or broken valve, or cracked piston ring or broken connecting rod. You wont know untill you take the crank case off, maybe its fixable with a bit of time or money.

if the cylinder block is cracked then your rooted.




if you got a parts list go to you local lawn mower store.
or
http://www.jackssmallengines.com/
or
http://www.rcpw.com/

for B&S engine parts

Thanks for the bad news, tezza. (But thanks for the links on spare parts).
Would have though some of the conditions you suggest would have made some "metal" noises when crakshaft is rotated. Still at least the engine seems like will have to be removed from the chasis and start pulling it down. Guess removing the head is the start - see what is happening - if piston is moving up and down. Maybe I should take the head off while still on the chasis as it might be in the head that the problem lies. U think?

To Bruce/Deejay/Grumpy - any guidance from here would be very welcome.

yeah take the head off, and see if the piston still moves, you will also see if the valves are going up and down.

depending on whats broken, there may be no metallic noises at all.

If, after severe over-revving, there is virtually no resistance to pulling the starter, and the crankshaft rotates, it sounds very much like a broken connecting rod. You can find out easily by taking out the spark plug and looking through the plug hole and/or sliding the end of a piece of tie-wire down through the plug hole and feeling around, then rotating the crankshaft. If you can't find a piston-head going up and down, you either have a broken rod or a broken piston - and there is no great likelihood of breaking a piston by over-revving, it is usually caused by detonation, pre-ignition, seized rings (no oil) or the old favourite: a foreign body in the cylinder.
You will also be able to see the valves through the plug hole, and verify that they are operating normally when you rotate the crankshaft.
You should be able to get a replacement connecting rod for an eight cubic inch Briggs, but very often when they are broken by over-revving they depart from the crankshaft with enough force to have broken the crankcase, which means a replacement engine is needed.

Thanks tezza and Grumpy. Will try your suggestions now and post result. It does seem to me like a broken conrod. As for potential crankcase damage, how to pick if there are no leaks or obvious external damage? Does it need dismantling and examination with a magnifying glass for fine cracks?

The crankcase itself is cast aluminium - it is not brittle, and would not shatter on impact. Usually the bottom of the rod separates from the crankshaft at the top of the stroke, and at that point the rod has a very high lateral velocity. The bottom of the rod is hurled sideways, and hits something before it stops moving. The something might be the crankcase, or the camshaft - and either way it will cause damage. When a rod breaks, if you were paying for labour, you wouldn't pay - you'd scrap the engine. It has to be examined carefully for signs of impact damage, and the damaged parts replaced. Chances are the inside of the crankcase has been hit hard, and this may have distorted it, which would make it more or less useless. In addition iron parts that have been hit may be cracked, bent, or both.
As a practical matter, you may be able to make a hobby job of this. The crankshaft may be OK. If you are rather lucky the crankcase may be OK. Most of the other bits may or may not be the same as corresponding bits of the 9 cubic inch engine used in lots and lots of vertical spindle lawnmowers - I don't know, but Joe or Bruce will. You can probably pick up a 9 cubic inch engine on a nearby nature strip.

Thanks Grumpy for the wise words. I may be force into a new engine then. What is the cheapest new engine option?

I see the Honda GX100U-QA2 engine is priced in USA as US$349 (jacksmallengines.com)but on the Honda site here GX100 is AUD $658.93 RRP (includes GST). Once again the Ozzie "rip" even though 1 AUD= US 92cents. Should be less than A$400. Anyway still outside my present finances.

Still hope on my repairing B&S 80202 for under $100. I see the US B&S site prices for parts a "reasonable" http://www.briggsandstratton.com/maint_repair/repair_parts/ example US$17 for conrod and US$15 for Std size ring set to suit model 80202. But they only ship to US addresses, so I would have to get it sent to my friends there and they post it on to me at an extra cost.

Deejay, you said somewhere on this forum that you had put a Honda on your 45. Is this the engine you used? What sort of price did you pay? And is there guidelines or a thread as to how to go about the process.

Well late yesterday afternoon I finally got a chance to investigate the B&S engine "bang". I removed the head and saw the valves (very coked) operate as required but the piston she no move. Removed the engine from the 45 chasis and attempted to removed the crankcase side cover, Came away enough to look inside and removed the "loose" pieces but cover is still hanging on i.e the bearing in the casing and onto the shaft - probably needs a puller, right guys?

Anyhow, the conrod big end has snapped off the rod and broken into 6 pieces, and it looks like a bit of marking/roughing on the crankshaft journal surface so probably needs a crankshaft regrind as well as a new conrod and crankcase gasket. Prob good to put in new rings (after checking the bore for needing to hone to oversize). Ugh!

As Grumpy says if you had to pay the mower shop ($85 plus /hr) it would not be worth it. Even my contact with a machine shop will prob charge me $100 to regrind the crakshaft and extra to do the bore. Don't know yet what the parts here cost but in the US i see that B&S charge $17 for the conrod, $15 for rings, and even only $81 for a complete new crankshaft. But even at those prices (plus freight) it builds up then with machining. The thing is the new engines are so cheap over there - large Briggs & Stratton 900 Series 205cc Engine at just $229.95, see http://partsnationwide.com/shop/product-detail.aspx?pc=10&sc=30&p=17963 but all I need is a 97 cu inch (150cc) and I think the model is 097302-0017 model which has a 5/8" keyed output shaft and the same mounting holes and drive shaft height as the present 80202. Will have to hunt a price for that one. Any comments or better info on this situation guys?

PG, I think it would be cheaper and easier to scrounge a more or less junked engine, or parts to repair your old one. A lot of those Briggs parts you need are as close as your nearest nature strip. However you will have a problem with the crankshaft - the 9 cubic inch engines used in vertical-spindle mowers have seven-eighths inch output shafts.
I don't know whether the 9 cubic inch engine has the same stroke as the 8 cubic inch with a smaller bore, or the same bore with a smaller stroke. If the stroke is the same you could get your machinist to turn down the output shaft of the crankshaft to five-eighths, but cutting a new keyway would be a bit of a pain (it's a milling job).
My preferred solution would be to find a more-or-less unwanted, horizontal crankshaft Briggs, Honda or Tecumseh that will physically fit your mower. I wouldn't care whether it was 6, 8 or 9 cubic inch displacement, so long as it was easily fixable and it fitted (which I suspect most of them will, except for the output shaft diameter of the 9 cubic inch engines). Unless you are unlucky, you should be able to get such an engine for less than $50 (possibly a lot less) if you don't mind replacing the rings and lapping the valves yourself.

Members FYI
In USA www.smallenginesuppliers.com sell the B&S 97302-0017 for US $249.95 plus freight (am awaiting freight quote ny email).

Anyone have an low local prices/suppliers for these engines?

Grumpy, once again thanks so much for your thoughtful advice. Less than $50 sounds good! Are you saying that at that price the basic mechanics would be OK on them? What would the be attached to (on such nature strips)?

And are you saying the older 9 cubic inch horizontals were bigger shafts than 5/8"? (Note my recent post on the new 97302-0017 where the 0016 type is 3/4" and the 0017 is a 5/8"). Yep I would do the rings and valve lap if that was all and ther was no boring, grinding or milling to be done (and paid for).

PG, you would check the basic mechanics by simple non-intrusive tests. With engines you are paying for that usually means firing them up then listening and watching. Free (mostly nature strip) engines probably won't start so you end up taking a punt on them being fixable. You will seldom find a horizontal crankshaft engine on a nature strip though, so that option involves a mix-and-match of parts. Hence, finding a running $50 horizontal-crankshaft engine that just needs minor repairs, is probably easier. You have to know as much as Bruce or Joe about the detailed interchangeability of parts to make the nature-strip option work - but you might be able to ask them specific questions here, to get the answers you need.
As far as I know all of the 9-series engines had seven-eighths inch shafts, but Bruce or Joe could tell you with certainty.
You can just start off with a plan to do this job without paying for machining. I doubt it would be a good idea to bore your clutch hub to fit a 9 cubic inch engine, so you need a five-eighths crankshaft. The simplest answer is to find someone (probably through this site) who has a spare Briggs, Honda or Tecumseh horizontal-crankshaft engine with that size shaft. They should all be interchangeable as far as engine mounting is concerned (Bruce could verify that). Then all you have to do is adapt the bottom end of your existing speed control cable to fit the new governor.
You may find that the most-available engine has less power than you are used to - the 60102 is only 2 hp instead of 2.5. I doubt this would be of any practical importance on a cylinder mower of 17" cut or less.

when you say conrod, you mean the thingy attaching the piston to the crank shaft right?

Take some pictures of the damage for all to see.

Maybe you just need a new connecting rod and all will be well.

Unless you have done damage to the piston and cylinder, dont bother replacing the rings. And if the crank case isnt cracked and leaking oil then its fine.

To get the crank case off, just keep at it, its only held on by a rubber oil seal, but it may be stuck, you can pry it of, or try to jiggle it, jsut apply a bit of force, dont be afraid of it. just dont damage the gasket if you want to reuse it.