I have one of the early Ranger rideons and I am wondering if anybody knows where I can get the friction disc material or anybody who can do this work. I'm not sure if the friction material goes on the alloy gear slider or on the disc on the bottom of the motor. I'm guessing it goes on the slider? Any thoughts, they are such a basic simple machine to just cut grass without all the bells and whistles of later machines. Pity to see this one go to the scrap because of not being able replace the friction material
First pic is the disc which fits on the end of the crank and the second pic is the drive that the disc drives on in a similar manner to the Ariens self propelled mower. I can't see where any friction material was fitted and I haven't see any pics of the drive
I wouldn't scrap it Norm, I've seen 7 mm Kevlar that could be glued at a brake relining place ,not sure cost wise if worth doing.
There are usually people looking for half decent wheels for these Rover mowers .so you could remove the engine and sell the rest for $100. ,I had one that looked like it was left in the rain for a few decades but wheels were good so I sold that for $50.
Yes I did think that maybe some brake mob would be able to bond something to it. Scrapped the motor because the crank was broken. Only thing not working is the brake and I'm not sure how that is meant to work. If I could get something bonded to the disc, put one of those $200 6.5 motors on it and it would be a good little cheap rideon for somebody
Just had a thought Max, instead of the friction material being on the disc maybe I can use an off the shelf Ariens/John Deer friction drive the same way as the Ariens self propelled mowers I can just bolt one of these to the sliding drive wheel And these are not too bad a price and if worst came to worst I could bolt a pair of them together, that should prevent any slippage. Maybe this dead simple rideon will live again https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/335700992125?_
Yes that sounds like it will work Norm ,the one in the link looks like it will suit the early Ariens ride on mower.
If I put a new motor on these Rover ride on mowers it would still only sell for $250. here and someone would probably drive a 4 hour round trip to buy it as that's what has happened in the past.That's still not a bad outcome because of all the calls that want me to drive 4 hours to deliver the mower.
Yes I know Max, but I hate seeing something that has years of life left in it just getting sent to the scrap. We are constantly getting bashed over the head about saving the environment, or is all that bullshit when it comes to making a dollar
Hi Max, Any thoughts on what material I should use on the disc, kevlar, nitrile,cork? At the moment the Ariens wheel idea is on hold because they are 150 in diameter which is 25mm in diameter bigger that the existing wheel and that will give me issues when I have to depress the shifter down to change gears because it will hit the rear axle. As a last resort I could lower the axle down say 15mm and that would give me clearance but it is a lot of work getting the wheels off and the axel out.
The cork I doubt would be strong enough , the Kevlar is strong but not a lot of friction tor a steel plate ,the Nitrile rubber should be fine ,has good grip to steel ,hard wearing and is contaminate resistant.
There are different formulations and grades of nitrile rubber, which can affect the price.
What about gluing an old car timing belt so the flat rubber is in contact with the flat steel plate ,I've seen old timing belts put on backwards on those ancient lathes with the flat round drive pulleys.
You would glue the rubber belt so it's like the Ariens drive.
Thinking about it ,it wouldn't be that difficult to use a steel cam pulley with the notches to hold the timing belt, but not that time consuming to notch the Rover drive wheel if you wanted to do it that way.
I'm sure an old belt would be free or dirt cheap at a wreckers
Yes Max, that is thinking outside the square and might just work. I threw out a timing belt we changed here a couple of months ago. Should be pretty easy to get one from a wrecker
I think a workshop might be easier to get a free timing belt Norm as they just throw them out.
The timing belt most probably will need the width narrowed as the wider width has a greater surface area and the force per square millimeter can be lower, which might suggest less grip .It would be narrowed to fit the rover drive anyway.
The problem might be if this doesn't work it's going to waste time.
I did see a Nissan RB30 cam gear and belt is about 125 mm width,
Thanks Max, that is about perfect, now to talk to my mate at JS Japanese Imports, he will have something like that for sure. Pretty much everything I do here is a waste of time but I enjoy problem solving and beating the system occasionally
Ok so my son in law has taken a fancy to this Rover so now I have to come up with a fix for this friction drive. I'm leaning more to bonding some material to the plate as opposed to the idea Mac came up with the timing gear. Reason I am reluctant to go this way is because I have to remove the rear wheels to get the shaft out to fit the new gear. This looks like an ugly job and if I can get something bonded to the disc I can leave the back end alone. I just have to find something that might work on it but now it is Christmas all these sort of brake and clutch places are closed. Anybody have any thoughts?
I thought about an old conveyor belt a while ago but didn't think it was the type of rubber that would wear well under load.
A few things to consider below.
Using an old conveyor belt for a friction drive in a mower is a mixed bag. While it can be a cost-effective solution, several factors will influence how quickly it wears under load:
Material Composition: Conveyor belts are made from various types of rubber and composite materials. Some are designed for heavy-duty applications, while others are not. Older or worn belts may have already degraded, compromising their effectiveness and durability.
Load and Usage: Mowers face significant forces, on uneven terrain. If the conveyor belt is not designed for high-friction applications, it will likely wear out faster under these load conditions.
Friction Properties: The ability of the belt to grip the driving surface is critical. If the rubber is hard or slick, it may not provide sufficient traction, leading to slippage and increased wear.
Heat Generation: Friction generates heat, and excessive heat can accelerate wear. If the conveyor belt isn't designed to handle prolonged friction under load, it may degrade more quickly.
Testing: If you're considering using the old conveyor belt, you could implement it on a trial basis. Monitor its performance, wear rate, and functionality under typical operating conditions of the mower.
Environmental Factors: Exposure to moisture, UV light, and temperature changes can affect the longevity of rubber materials. If the belt is exposed to harsh conditions, its lifespan may be shorter
If the 12 mm belt is made from a durable, high-friction material, it may perform well even under considerable load.
while using an old conveyor belt may initially seem like a viable option, it is likely to wear out quickly if it is not suited for the specific demands of a friction drive system.
This does make me wonder what the original friction drive was made from possibly asbestos.
Hi Max, Thanks for that, it is a mixed bag of options and always a guess as to what Rover used. One good thing is the motor is held on by 4 easy to get at bolts so the motor can be pulled off in a few minutes if the belt wears out. It has to be a material that is grippy to grab the drive wheel but hard enough not to wear too rapidly. My Daughters place in Drouin is flat and not too far away so that I can monitor it and for a free rideon mower they won't be able to complain much and I can see how the belt survives and you never know somebody may come here in the future asking for a solution to this problem These machines are so simple and it is a shame to see them going to scrap because of this simple drive disc problem
Before I got rid of my last rusted Rover Ranger I was contemplating fixing it and it also needed a new friction drive.
I found someone I know that had a friction drive pulley in his shed on a horizontal shaft engine driving an air compressor ,I was going to swap 3 impulse starters for the friction drive and he wanted the old pulley to put back on the compressor ,I'm guessing it will still be on the compressor ,he'd probably take 3 early alloy victa starters too if impulse starters can't be found ,it wouldn't take me long to look into that if your interested.
The other option would be to fit a small gearbox with forward and reverse from another mower ,I've seen them on a few different brands of mowers the one below I removed from a MTD ,decades ago when vertical shaft ride on mowers were hard to come by at a cheap price, I converted a ride on to a horizontal shaft engine and used the same gearbox on it's side. just had to make mounting brackets, not that you would need to turn the gearbox on it's side or use a horizontal motor.
Lots of options Max, I stripped down a Bolens rideon last week and the transmission out of that is here, but a lot of work setting it up and it is much wider than the Ranger
Yeah I wouldn't swap it to a transaxle Norm as it's too much work ,I've changed transaxles when they are similar.
I would just do what ever is the easiest and the least amount of work ,I don't mind picking up the right part if you find something to swap with the guy as he didn't want to sell it but probably will swap it for some old part.
Old impulse starter and cup 2 stroke Villiers parts old motors or old recoil starters for Villiers ,2 stroke amal carby ,torque major ,torque master parts ,he might take one of those old heavy cast iron briggs horizontal shaft motors but would be a hassle to deliver , if you can find a few parts that will fit in a $12 post bag I can post you the friction drive to save time..
Some old part that is under 5 kg and fits in a small $12, pre paid post satchel would be easy ,it won't take long to get, I may take my old worn out friction drive pulley tomorrow and swap it on his compressor so I can get some pics of it and then just work out the easiest way to get it to you
If you swapped it for a $10. . Villiers mower with a torque major or master motor or something heavy then it's going to need to be picked up.
I think it would be easier if it's smaller for postage ,if you want to go for a drive to get it straight away that could be arranged.
I may be able to get the drive for free as I know he wanted a part machined on a lathe , easy job but I'm not sure if your small lathe would do the job ,it was a 4 inch pole that needed turning down on one end about 5 inches to be tuned down on one end but the total length of the pole is about 4 foot so you would need a centre steady.
Just Looks like a high temp ,high strength woven material Norm but can't find anything online that tells you exactly what the material is.
Possibly Ceramic or Composite Materials, In some designs, friction materials may incorporate ceramics or advanced composites for improved wear resistance and heat dissipation.
As one old enough to remember relining drum brake shoes the lining material came in rolls of different thicknesses and grades and it was just a matter of rivetting it on to the metal shoes. In the 1960s a company in Melbourne developed a method to stick the lining on without rivets (Raybond) and did very well.
I just searched "brake reline friction material", the material is available. I did some work on a Cox ride on with the variable drive system recently, the friction material looked just like brake lining.
I'm not sure how old the friction drive I have is as it doesn't look original ,it looks like a replacement so if it's an old replacement then likely has asbestos.
I looked at all the friction material ages ago but the problem was finding one that was suitable for an aluminum wheel as you can't use normal brake lining, I'm sure some manufacturer will have Ceramic or Composite Materials that will suit but it can't be cheap going by the replacement change over part.
Max, I will have a chat to the blokes at BGT brakes and clutches, they have been in this game for as long as I can remember, they must have some idea. One of the reasons that new part was so expensive is because you have to buy the whole assembly not just getting the existing pulley rebonded with new friction material
Talking about brake companies, I recently bought a set of brake pads online from RDA. I couldn't believe how bad they were. The metal locator tabs that fit into the center of the caliper pistons didn't fit at all. When I tried to install the pads, the three metal clips would get damaged and start to break. In the end, the only way to fit them was to use pliers to bend the three metal locator tabs. I'm not sure if the pads were seconds from a questionable seller, or if they are all this bad.
"The metal clips are made from really poor-quality material and are nowhere near the size needed to fit the caliper piston properly."
I do buy some new parts these days that are listed for what I want but they don't fit without modifications but the sellers don't tell you that.
I'd never seen such low quality pads ,I now see what's happening ,the pads were for an old car so now the higher quality suppliers don't make the brake pads anymore.
Hi Max, with pretty much everything you buy on ebay you take a chance but overall you can save a lot of money over time with only the odd thing catching you out. In Casey at the moment there is a shitfight going on because they have brought in a permit system which you have to apply for, wait 2 weeks and pay $150 so you can work on YOUR own car in YOUR own driveway. You have to have a permit ( all costing $150) for a caravan or unregistered vehicles parked on YOUR property. The troops are not happy down Casey way
With the friction plate I guess I could cut a piece out of an old car tyre and glue/rivet that on. And another way may be going back to the idea you had about using the timing gear and belt, I guess I could cut strips from a car tyre and glue/rivet that to the ally wheel. At least with doing it this way the motor doesn't have to come off if it needs replacing, just glue/rivet another strip of tyre on. Got nothing to loose if it doesn't work
Yep I've had to get a few refunds on eBay when buying new products from China when they aren't fit for purpose ,there are a few sellers that say the buyer has to pay return postage but that's not eBay's policy so you can get a full refund without paying to return an item that doesn't match the sellers description.
The City of Casey say on their webpage ,Unfortunately, in recent days, our Customer Service Team has been subjected to threatening behaviour as a result of inaccurate information. I've always wondered when we will be taxed for breathing as we get taxed for almost everything else ,I guess a pollution tax is as good as a breathing tax.
I didn't know how many things now require a permit in Casey Norm ,I guess if you work inside a shed /garage where people can't see there shouldn't be a problem.
In a few weeks I may be down your way Norm to drop off some scrap ,I can drop off that friction drive I have here if you want it at no charge ,I realize you may not want to use it if it has asbestos in it. Up to you.
Thanks Max, Happy to pay you for the friction disc, that will get this great little rideon back into service. Seemed to be a terrible waste to just scrap when it has years of service left in it not to mention the fact it is helping the environment by recycling/repurposing items
The Rover looks good finished ,turned out well ,should last at least another 50 years if you can still buy fuel in 50 years.
Should have a fair amount of grunt as it looks more than 8 Hp.
You would never think people would keep selling damaged cracked new old stock tubes ,ends up costing more in Labour to keep replacing tubes than what they are worth.
Yes Max, it has plenty of power with an 11hp motor. I had to rebuild the deck which took a bit of time. Thanks again for the friction disc, hopefully my daughter and hubby will appreciate the amount of hours I spent on it.
