The 200 mm slack in the starter before it catches can be made better if using a later starter Norm ,the ones that have a steel ring that holds the starter handle when retracted come out 100mm then catch the crank.
I had a standard PT the other day, the starter was 300 mm before catching the crank and it was a pig to start so I changed the starter and it was easy to start but I can see the mechanical advantage of these starters not so great. If I spin the motor over slightly to get the starter in a better position the slack in the cord goes down to 80mm.
Having the starter handle mounted on the handle bars with a longer cord might be worth trying but I would change the starter first and fit the longest cord possible with the starter handle in the normal position.
These later type starters interest me Our PT 24 originally had a starter that definitely did not engage early Assuming it was worn somehow we changed it to a different one which was a lot better. However it still certainly had more than 100mm slack. I have never seen one with a metal cord ring. What type of engine would they be standard on?
It seems I need one of these later engines. To get the bigger blade boss and the better starter.What type of mower are they on? I do need another 460 utility the chances of getting all that together in one mower are not high I guess. Any identifying cowls etc to look for?
I can see why a side pull has a mechanical advantage on the starter but a cup starter must surely be the same as a PT starter. Jeff
Hi Jeff, I got a reply from the bloke selling the pulley bosses, they weigh 400 grams the same as the heavy boss weighs but without the extra weight of the pressed pulley. With the restricted decomp and the heavy boss there is no attempt to kickback so you can pull it with confidance that you are not going to break your fingers. I believe the problem is a cup starter is spinning it directly from the center and the PT is pulling from the center of the conrod/big end and I'm sure this is what is causing the extra load. This coupled with the way the motor is positioned on the base means to get an effective pull you pretty much have to pull it vertically.I have worked out how to start it with my right foot on the mower and heave vertically with every bit of strength I have, using my back to slingshot upwards to get it spinning fast enough to fire. I have heaps of the metal cord ring type I will swap one on the see if any difference is achieved. At least I know it can be started but it is at the utmost of my strength ability to get it going and I can still lift mowers up onto the bench so I still have some strength left
The steel pull cord guide is on the previous page (4) Jeff, the first 2 images I posted one has a grey plastic top the other is the red top, any model with that type of plastic top will have that starter.
We know a little more weight fixed the kick back problem and the full crank is not as difficult to start but these PT's are missing half a crank compared with the Full crank and that means the PT is already missing 1000 grams of spinning mass which is the same weight as a tow ball.
If it was me I would be buying a tow ball for $2. at the wreckers and machining the threaded part off the tow ball then drilling and taping the tow ball so it threads onto the crank or just drill a hole in the tow ball that is bigger than the crank thread and then weld the crank nut to the tow ball. That's probably 600 grams more.
The 460 Pro utility is the only model that I know that will have the bigger boss Jeff but a lot of the Victa utility mowers don't have the heavier boss.
The 460 pro doesn't have the steel ring starter cord guide but has a removable alloy guide but is still a good starter.
Never thought about the half crank and full.crank issue but Max has to be right At least a kg less spinning mass Norm I think you need to find more weight
Not sure about a tow ball . Might drag on the ground.
Ours with the side ways mount is just like a normal PT in the position of the pull cord but it is heavier to pull I'll keep looking for a later model Looks like any with the rounded cowl would be OK
They seem to be getting more expensive around here.
Jeff, I would love to find more weight but I have lost 15kg over the last 8 months. LOL I have no idea what the wire rope guides come off but I have dozens of them here, probably a 50/50 mix of them so they are not rare. Max, I have been thinking of all those ideas and I had already thought about the towball so my idea was not that silly but I wasn't going to mention it here. Had also thought of welding a round 1/2 inch thick plate to the nut but then there is the issue of burning out the nyloc nut. The only other place I can think of adding weight is a stepped heavy disc welded to the top side of the heavy boss. All still adds up to what I have said for a long time is that this configuration is not fit for purpose
I had a look under a full crank (Super 600) and there wasn't a lot of room for adding weight but the tow ball would only come down another 42 mm ,looked like plenty of clearance to me but I'm assuming the PT motor is in the same location. It's just the ball end that is used the other half of the tow ball would be thrown out.
Max, latest thought is making a heavy steel disc and threading it and using that instead of the nut, can make that any size I wanted as you can remove the nut/disc before you take the motor off so you can lift it through the chassis
Yes that should work Norm if it fits in ,it was the full crank that I looked at and the axle was in the way of installing a disc but the PT having a boss the disc may fit on the other side of the axle.
I thought of making a big heavy nut too How would you stop it coming undone without the nyloc. Already have the wavy washer . Might be OK . I have never had one come loose even the old models without the special washer.
Hi Jeff, probably what I will end up doing, I have some 1/4 inch plate here. I have fitted one of the starters with the wire ring rope guide as Max suggested it is a bit better and if you carefully rotate the motor with the cord you can get it to pick up without the 200 mm slack. I also fitted a long cord but haven't tried it yet as it was getting a bit late last night Ok latest idea is I have a 500 gram barbell weight, just have to work out how to fit it
Ok so that solved the problem, no starting issues at all now, the PT half crank does not have enough crank weight to get the motor spinning. Dead easy to start now but how many of them are out there that are put away in the shed because they are impossible to start
Hi Jeff, I didn't try it with the new starter, forgot about that, It was the extra 600 grams I put on the nut. I welded the 500 gram weight to the crank nut and welded a big nut on the face of it so I can rattle gun it up. It burnt out the nyloc but I rattled it up with my big gun so it is really tight. Just wanted to prove that it would work. So if I get stuck with another one then if I couldn't find another heavy boss I would be looking around for 1kg dumbell weight and fit that, it certainly makes it much smoother that before as well, isn't banging so hard, feels so much better
A dumbbell weight. They are cast iron aren't they I would love to see some pictures About a kilo is what it needs from a standard boss. Those dumbbell weights might be expensive if you had to buy one as I would.
Anyway good to see a success. This has been troubling is for a while now.
Hi Jeff, I thought it would have been cast iron but it was steel and so hard that I couldn't turn it, just kept taking the edge off the tools. I remembered that the dumbell had been sitting under the lathe for years, never know when you might need something like that
