OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums General Discussion Forum Off Topics Ethanol fuel

This is something that I guess few have thought about. With all these cars being parked up with people not driving to work, and/or having to stay at home for extended periods cars with a tank of ethanol fuel left sitting have a good chance of the fuel turning to water and the first they will know about it is an expensive repair bill. I have not seen any mention of this anywhere

Spot on there Norm,
It's no surprise that both Govt's and the fuel industry would be keeping dark on this one, though!

I refuse to buy E10 fuel, and there are servos/brands I won't use - because I just don't trust any of their petrol types to be ethanol-free.
It's not that I can't take a sample and easily test it for the presence of ethanol; it's just that I don't see any reason why I should need to.

Hadn't thought of ethanol Norm - we don't have much of it in WA. I was more thinking petrol gum forming

A friend read a paper published by a university stating the best economic and environmental gains can be met by e60 - they reckon 60% is best for the environment

I said BS its good for the environment because you can kiss the fuel system of just about every car on the road goodbye.

Almost got done by a petrol station last week - really cheap fuel. Turns out they were closing down and wanted the tanks emptied. Said friend bought a tankful and has now had to replace the fuel filters in his falcon - he got a tonne of sludge off the bottom dregs of the underground tank

Are any of those no go servos a major trademark chain or do you mean independent/less prominent chains?

While we're onto various petrols, which 98s are most likely to possibly go towards cleaning the fuel system in a car?

Anyones guess MF - they don't release the proprietary formulations

All I know is I have no issues with Caltex 98 ron - everything fires up straight away.

If you are going to use 98 just for the extra cleaning - I say just buy a bottle of injector cleaner. Buy 98 for less carbon deposits, cleaner burn, able to advance ignition more, smoother running - not for better economy or cleaner system.

Also less stink as it has lower sulphur - which causes the dreaded rotten egg gas. Although I still get it when I hammer the car hard

G'day MF,
Depends on where you're located, a bit; but in my local area I do avoid United as a brand. Not too many independents down my way!

IMHO 98 is not necessarily better than 95 for injector cleaning, but both are way ahead of 91. Much better shelf life too, without having to add stabiliser.

The thing about 98, is that it is specifically formulated for closed-loop controlled fuel injection systems [which all have 'knock' and EGO sensors], and it has some properties that don't agree too well with carburetted engines, of any size.

So my reserve jerries get filled with 95, when I can get it at a good price!

As many country servos have gone over to 98 as their sole Premium petrol, I use the Petrolspy website to find good pricing on 95 - it's much better than the motoring association [RACV, NRMA etc] websites.

Had a Victa Quantam dropped off a couple of days ago wouldn't start and leaking fuel. Pulled the carb and one rusty mess. When I removed the fuel tank there was about 3/4 of a cup of water in the tank and the tank had a split in it, obviously the ethanol had attacked the seam. Why is it not law that ethanol fuel bowsers should be labeled "not suitable for small engines". At least some people might notice it and the word might get out there.

I've lost Victa prism caps due to that stuff and the resulting clogged fuel tank outlet from the melted plastic.

A couple of reasons Norm

- a Briggs reckon it is fine to use up to 10%. Makes them happy - they either give plenty of business to their registered dealers, or they get to sell new engines/mowers

-b It pleases the chinese overlords - allowing them to pump out a ton of disposable s*** with 118cc chondas, thin pressed steel deck, bar blade and fabric catcher

Saw a quantum a few weeks ago where they had cut the tank off, made a bracket and bolted on a chonda tank. Very neatly done, was done by a retired bloke apparently

Hi Tyler,
That does nothing to improve my opinion on Briggs. I guess there is nothing wrong with ethanol, it becomes the owners fault if they don't empty the tank and drain the carby after every use, so it is easy for them to say it is the idiot owners fault for not doing proper maintenance on their mower
As for the Chondas I have no sympathy for people who buy them, they get what they deserve

The new briggs are crap anyway. built down to a price - made in the usa from chinese parts

A friend asked me what I thought about Aldi mowers. I found time to give him an opinion haha. Turns out he had bought it but was still in box. Gave him a 148cc 18in Victa Vantage cheap and told him to return the other POS. Compared to Victa's of yesteryear, the vantage is still awful, but a world ahed of Aldi

I drain the 2 stroke Victa's after every use, but its much more difficult to drain quantums. Will be starting a 99 Pace PT this afternoon - from memory it was last october/november last start, so will see how it goes.

Some cheaper things are pretty alright, but some are just shocking. Picked up a cheap Homelite trimmer from bunnings clearance - split shaft for under $40. The damn thing would not run right from the get go - it was that lean. And all it is good for is whipper snipperig - the clutch is that weak you can smell it burning if I use the edger or pole saw attachments.



Remember that old quantum with the split intake torqued down all wrong? And how I said it lost a fair bit of oil on just 1 heavy mow. Worked out the sludge was the only thing holding half the cheap seals together.

I have a weeping lower main, upper main, dipstick tube base, crankcase gasket and valve chest gasket; everything that could leak is. Made in China. Will tip in some rislone stop leak as it always helps when this stuff happens and there is no way I will be pulling it down to fix.

Hi Tyler,
you are right on the new Briggs, I asked the woman who had paid $500 for a Thunder before Christmas, how it was going now that I had fitted a Victa round disc carrier with four blades on it as instead of the original bar blade. She said it was pretty good except if the grass was a bit long and being self propelled if the motor has to work a bit hard it gets hot and just stops Wait for it to cool down and start again. Obviously designed purely as a lawn mower not a grass cutter.

I pulled the Pace out this afternoon. Its one of the ones without a decomp. Checked and everything good, sprayed silicone spray under it as an experiment (worked ok).

3 primes, fired on the first pull but stalled and took another 2. Gave lawn one last hard cut, and dressed with a bit of bentonite (hopefully the rain will wash it in and keep the water in next summer).

It's the low comp model, and it still absolutely thrashed the quantum 50. I could have stalled it once or twice, but only when the catcher was absolutely full. Plug burn was perfect, deck cleaned and is now resting in the shed

Tyler,
Any 2 stroke Victa will trash a Quantam, they are from different planets . The old proof in the pudding was the 500cc 2 stroke GP bikes. To achieve the same lap times using the same riders on the same tracks they had to double the size of the 4 stroke motor to 1000cc. Call me a cynic but don't bigger engines use more fuel so the pollution caused by the 2 strokes was immediately offset by having to use bigger motors in the 4 strokes to just achieve identical lap times. So often our lives are influenced by scientists that just don't understand the facts and just push their own agenda. The race bikes are the only 100% proof that can be used as a direct comparison between the 2 engine types but the world has been "convinced" that 4 stroke is best because they can't see that bit of smoke, and to hell with the world pollution being caused by the mass production in that stinking country that churns out billions of the 4 stroke mower rubbish that often only last one season and then end up in landfill

I've just never understood how, at least for a rotary mower, a 4 stroke is seen as an advantage.

Maybe it's me, but the amount of times I've somehow tipped a bit of oil into the cylinder of my Briggs on the Greenfield is unreal. I can only think that it's when I lift the back wheels a few cm off the ground in order to get it out of the shed it happens. It's not overfilled, as experience with large air cooled aero engines stuck with me - they like to run at less than full sump capacity. I've carried that through with me, rightly or wrongly. So off I go in a cloud of smoke. Much to the entertainment of the neighbours and disgust of any small flying insects in the vicinity.

It's also "check and add." They reckon you need never change the oil. We'll see about that. And to me, checking a dipstick and adding oil is more of a faff than just adding it to a fuel can. Let alone draining and disposing of it.

Maybe we have been had, Norm. I'll quite happily consider electric power, but I just fail to see the benefits of 4 stroke motors in most garden equipment.

I've been peeling those 'check and add' stickers off when ever I see one.

I agree its less hassle to mix fuel than change oil. Half the time I miss the drain pan or half kick it over. I should get one of those suction things, but they just don't get the sludge muck out as well as the sump plug or tipping.

The 2 stroke used slightly less fuel as well

Nothing like the sound of a PT when it comes under load

I think the main different between is how they produce work. 2 cycle produce work on every complete rotation of the crankshaft where a 4 cycle is every other complete rotation (single cylinder engine). Same rules applies to twin cylinders just that the work is doubled. Personally when it comes to twin the old 4 cycle opposed engines produce every complete rotation evenly. v-twins not as much as either one is 90 or 270 degrees off being how you look at the firing order so to me one cylinder is just a booster cylinder. It that coasting 270 degrees is where a lot of the work potential is lost.


Personally I don't like the idea of check and fill only engines either but most of the walk behind are pretty well disposable nowadays and that the way manufactures like it. Here in my shop it has gotten to where I don't walk behind mowers anymore. It cost more to repair one than to replace it currently.

AVB, some of those "hyper tough" and Poulan mowers side throw mowers I know you have over there are just shocking.

Unbolting the wheels to change height levels - we have only had 1 mower I can think of (fortunately) with that system here (which Norm rightly likes for the engine)

I have found no reason why people should prefer 4 strokes over 2 strokes - they are both noisy enough to need ear protection, 2 strokes are no harder to start (so long as you turn the fuel tap off 10 seconds before you put it away), 2 strokes last longer and make a shed load more power, you get 5 years out of a victa snorkel filter at least, general servicing consists of clean/change spark plug, tap out filter, do blades. Occasional plug boot replacement, primer o ring and clean out float bowl.

Victa did themselves a disservice by using the G4/LM which sometimes wouldn't idle right out of the factory (and the kill wires) - probably put plenty of people off them.


Last year I had an argument with a woman who is bloody environmentalist (and feminist, but thats another story) who reckoned electric mowers were much better for the environment and everything petrol should be banned.

I said what about all the environmental damage from shipping the electric one from china, then replacing ever 3 years when it predictable craps itself, then discarding plastic and shipping the metal back for resmelting and making another piece of s***

She said thats different

I said why, the only difference is you are f***ing up other peoples environment - not your immediate one; net results are much worse. Couldn't get my point across

You also recharge your batteries from coal powered power stations..........
my 2 cents worth
speedy

speedy, speedy, speedy, what rock are you living under, everybody who uses these battery powered devices will explain to you that their batteries are powered by renewable sources such as wind and solar