OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Victa Two Stroke Engines Fuel/ Ethanol

Last week I had a bloke bring a Victa with side pull motor back because it wouldn't start. I pulled the spark plug out and immediately I said to him "this has been straight fueled" He was adamant that it hadn't but the plug was just an orange colour, no sign of blackness at all. Anyway I drained the tank and it looked like it had oil in it, but I replaced it with some of my fuel, bit of messing about and I got it running again, much to my amazement, I was totally convinced it was straight fueled. Anyway today he told me that the fuel he had mixed was ethanol blend and might that have been the problem. I don't know but I am wondering if anybody has had any similar experience with using ethanol blend in a 2 stroke

I once had a reddish orange plug in my Victa after I bought 98 octane fuel from Puma - wouldn't run right but would run. Used it as degreaser and never went to Puma again - must have been some octane booster they use to boost crappy fuel

I just don�t use ethanol in anything.

Don't be afraid of Ethanol fuel blends as I have been using it many years. Here we had 10% Ethanol fuel blend since the before the turn of the century. Yes I hear the horror stories about it. A lot of it is just that, stories.

Some fuels problem are caused by the additives. I had '79 car that was constantly plugging fuel filters when I was using a mid grade fuel but never had problems using the regular or premium blends.

When properly mixed with good quality fuel oil there is no problem using it in 2 cycles. I actually run the 10% Ethanol in everything here. We run 2 cycles at mix ratios at up 50:1 (one US gallon to 2.66 us oz of oil). In my shop I only use Ethanol blend with a Pro Mix synthetic oil that is design for use in anything using from 16:1 to 50:1 when mix as package. It comes package as one package per gallon to make mixing simple.

One thing about Ethanol fuel blends is that it must be stored in tightly sealed containers or it absorb moisture from the air and will separate out as water in the fuel. And as with all fuels will cause problems when in long term storage. It is recommended that any Ethanol blend be used up within 30 days or have stabilizer added.

Another problem is the poor quality fuel and fuel oils sold at the local convenience stores. I have seen the results of this myself so I only use fuel from a trusted supplier. There is nothing like having to drop a fuel tank loaded with fuel because of water pumped or the incorrect fuel into your tank. Once I purchase 5 gallons of fuel for my garden tiller and filled the tank. I went all of 10 feet when the engine died. Water in the new fuel. I acutally had over a quart of in the 5 gallon container. If you ever had a 300 lb plus tiller in a freshly tilled area you would had hard it is to get it out by hand just work on it.

Normally a straight fueled 2 cycle here will have the spark coated with grey residue (actually aluminum). Norm what you is one that is way too lean on fuel/air mixture normally. BTW some once they realized they straight fueled an engine will put in the correct fuel mix and claim they have used the correct mix. Most times you can drop the muffler where you can the exhaust side of the piston and cylinder. If straight gassed it will be quite obvious from the damage done.

Matter of fact I just got leaf blower in yesterday the was straight gassed that had the properly mixed fuel in the tank. Plug greyed and when I dropped muffler there was heavy damage to piston and oil trails on the piston as I cycled the engine showed how the cylinder was scored. The customer is needing to another cheap blower or buy a better unit. Oh the short block is fairly cheap but between the shipping and my labor it would had cost more than 2 new one of the same model.

AVB on these Victa carbies there is no way of adjusting the mixture, the only variable is a few different main jets, but they are rare. Anyway this mower after he got rid of the ethanol fuel, he said he dumped it, now is running a nice black coloured plug as it should. Only thing changed was the ethanol. I am well aware that some people try to cover up their mistake by changing the fuel after the event and with this motor I was only a few minutes away from pulling off the head to prove to he and his mate that it had been straight fueled, glad I didn't I would have looked a bit silly

I bought some years ago......
Just washed the LM carb out and while putting it back together, I found the O ring on the side had expanded so it didn't fit.
It was recommended not to use it on small enginges and only on late model cars. Maybe the blends have changed.....
But I will leave it alone.
speedy....

See what that useless rubbish does to the see through prism on the fuel cap with the guage. Who knows what that crap will do elsewhere. Stick to standard 91 or 95.
98 is too dear for any tenuous benefits that may bring.

Just wonder what the percentage of Ethanol they are using in the blend. Here I never needed to adjust the air fuel mixture between the 100% gas and the 10% but they are going to 15% soon and that may cause problems. I do know everything small engine is label for no more than 10%; although, 15% Ether blend is fine in them.

Here I can test the local fuel for Ethanol fairly easily. Just take a 250 ml test tube. Adding 50ml of water to 200 ml will indicate the present of Ethanol. Just shake and let settle. Anything over the 50ml is the percentage of Ethanol divide by 2. Example: you have 180 ml fuel vs water/alcohol is 10%.

And yes Speedy some rubbers don't like the Ethanol. I get in Tecumseh engines where the fuel bowl gasket like to swell in the present of the fuel but usually not problem unless you are pulling the bowl after the rebuild. If I do then I got the let the gasket sit a couple days and the swelling goes back down. Of course it does it again as soon as the fuel is present again. Most manufactures are using better gaskets and o-rings that are not affected.

I cleaning a Tecumseh carburetor now that had only pure thru it and it had been sitting several years. It has a gummy residue it that only strong cleaner cleaner can cut though. Something I haven't used in 5 years so I may need to make a special purchase just a can of the dip cleaner. I would just another carburetor but this is one of the old fully adjustable versions that have been obsoleted by the EPA. I hoping alternating the fresh fuel soaking and UC soap/water cleaning may have finally cleaned the idle passage.

I will know in a few days as I got Polaris UTV in the shop that is now ahead of the generator besides I got to get a kit for the carb. Probably will take the rest of tomorrow just rework the front end as I having to cut out the A frame bolts so I can replace the bushings and replace the CV boots. I spent over half a day just get the right side apart. Actually all day I but I was working other work in as I went. I get better at this ATV/UTV work before it took a full day or two just to get where I am at already. The owner/mechanic want to try something he seen on youtube. I didn't think would work but try it anyway. I should just use the press instead of wasting my time with the air hammer trying to get the bearing out. Makes a world of difference when you got the right tools for the job at hand. Since the owner is cutting corners I didn't try replacing the ball joint as it rust in place fairly well but it seen to a simple compression fit.

People wonder why it so expensive to do work nowadays but they should be present just see waht we got to go through just to get to the problems.

AVB, there is no such thing as a simple job even though it may look simple, one bolt or one stupid thing you can't get at turns a 5 min job into hours. Last week it took me 7 hours to remove a Briggs motor from one of the 24 inch slashers, you know just 3 bolts and remove the boss/pulley. When I first looked at it I thought I would have it off in half an hour

Forgive the spelling, fingers got crossed again. Still learning to type. Strange that I work on typewriters for 8 yrs and never learned to type until I got a computer.

Totally agree and feel the pain of that. I still recovering the last injury of my hand and arm. I think I actually broke a finger right at the joint. Boy I was feeling it yesterday and the cold weather isn't helping. The die grinder was ice cold after 10 minutes of use.

Boy it took nearly an hour with a die grinder to cut out two grade 10.9 bolts and I still got two more to do. I had to be extra carefully as to not grind something unintentionally. At least the bushings are nylon but there is metal sleeve on the bolts. It should had been simple to remove two nuts and slide the pivot bolts out but everything was rusted solid. What worst is this UTV is a hybrid when comes to the bolts and screws. Both metric and SAE so a lot more tools to deal with me at one point thinking I was going need to drag the whole tool box set out but is a pain to move that 44" set around. I actually going Sunday to get another 44" top box for the other 44" cabinet.

I know I going to have problems when I see a Cub Cadet ZTR come in the shop with drive problems. I usually end up with torch and puller to the engine pulley off as they don't bother to use anti-seize at the factory. I know I am going to destroy the pulley nearly 100% of the time but the last one I also destroyed my puller. I stripped the jack screw using just a 1/2" dr ratchet. Must had been already to fail after 8 yrs of use.

Pullers don't last forever, they have to work very hard to earn their keep, and it is always a case of abusing them, I just need to get this off and I can worry about buying another later, I just need it to last this one last time

Especially those cheap Chinese ones that I use. I just had the stripped threads enlarged and a new stronger forcing installed. Of course I did buy a new puller set as I need the smaller forcing screw to pull on 3/4 crankshafts. I snapped the puller arms on a 5 ton three arm puller back in the Summer but I haven't replaced it yet. I having to look at the new ones in person as the replacements from Harbor Freight all had the forcing angle off center so they would puller sideways which just jams things worse.

Normally on the bigger puller I throw the impact at them without problems so I was surprised when I stripped the forcing just using hand tools. I didn't know I was so strong. I must have eaten my spinach that morning.

What do you guys think of two arm pullers? I got a gear puller with two arms years ago at a closing down sale at a car accessories shop for $12, made in Taiwan and it pulls off the Victa fan at the top no problem. I imagine three arms is better but this has served me well the two times I needed it!

Not bad for low torque pulls but they do go sideways under high torque pulls which is why there are 3 and 4 point pullers. And yes I have broken the arms on pullers so you know just how torque I apply at times. Heat is your friend during some pulls when applied correctly.

That sounds right AVB. The fan at the top is a low torque job for sure, unless it hasn't been removed since 1970! The times I used it, there was minimal resistance felt. I just thought for $12.00 you couldn't go wrong as a first (and only) puller!

Many pullers for many different jobs, I often have to make a puller for particular job, might only need it for that job but if you have to get it off, you have to get it off by whatever means

My grandson dropped off a Honda self propelled in excellent condition last night, belongs to a mate of his, story goes I think my wife put 2 stroke in it and now it won't start. I didn't think that 2 stroke would rust the carby solid LOL

What I don't get my head around is why people will go out and spend big money on a Honda self propelled and then cheap out on using ethanol in it.
AVB there is probably nothing wrong with ethanol being used in cars on a daily basis, but unless you are a contractor mowing daily, every mower I know of is used once every 2/3 weeks during the mowing season then they get put away for months and the fuel is left in them. You are never going to solve this problem without avoiding ethanol like the plague, something which is difficult for you people in the States. Using a fuel stabilizer is unheard of here and would be as difficult for people to use as is mixing 2 stroke

Norm, it's like people who say how good the Honda's are by saying 'mines only been serviced twice in 20 years and still goes strong'.

If i had paid $1200+ for a Honda, I would be servicing it every 6 months

This why the 2 cycle fuel mix here that I mix and use is with a fuel oil that contains the stabilizer already in it so that extra step is already taken care of. Since I only mix I in one gallon increments I the gallon packages. It is a synthetic oil designed for equipment that runs 16:1 to 50:1 mixes. I got several personal chainsaws and string trimmers that may not get used but once or twice a year. It is the gasoline only engines that got to have the stabilizers added to the fuel right now.

But even with this fuel oil for 2 cycles readily available the endusers as you say Norm will cheap out by buying from the local convenience store the el cheapo fuel oils. What is strange is that what I sell is actually the same price though it is package differently (the packaging does affect the cost), in foil packs instead of bottles. It probably it is because they need to save the extra money for their tobacco and booze.

As for our cutting times we during our mowing season which is nearly 9+ months now we are cutting once a week normally to keep up with the growth in the southern US our equipment only sits unused a max of 3 months. My personal equipment usually sits longer periods since I use the customer mowers to cut large parts of lawn so ensure that I find the reported problems and that they are repaired correctly. 6 acres is a lot of grass to cut too.

I do see that fuel stabilizer becoming common in your country too as Ethanol is here to stay but if sweet crude keep staying below $50 a barrel users at the pumps will start opting more for the pure fuel instead Ethanol blends.