OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Victa Two Stroke Engines Victa Super 24 - Hard to Start

I think these are one of the greatest designs ever, having seen one in the Powerhouse museum in Sydney, and found a good one which when it starts goes through waist high blade grass like it's not there - when it starts.
It has a 2 stroke engine, with the electronic ignition with coil and ignition module mounted up high. Side pull starter mounted towards the front. Plastic G4 or LM carby with external plastic serrated wheel for idle adjustment.
Always been a pig to start. Decompressor was stuffed, fitted new one. Also new diaphragm in carby and new side to float bowl with new float needle etc.
Have moved the poppet valve so "A" is beside the notch (as per advice from somewhere). New plug. Tested the resistance of both ignition module and coil - both are 6.7K ohms each. Apparent good spark with plug out,and plug held to side bolt.
Sometimes it seems as though the float bowl takes ages to fill and plug dry on removal. Other times plug gets wet.
Often after having carb apart or flywheel off it will be fine and start right up but the next time it's dead again. With flywheel impeding access to air gap between coil and magnet it's not possible to set the gap with feelers etc.
Welcome any thoughts. I think the engine itself is fine as has heaps of power..

G'day Doug,
I learnt a trick from an American YouTuber for setting the gap. Cut a strip of cardboard the thickness of a business card a tiny bit longer than the magnets and about 1 cm wide and place it between the coil and magnets on the flywheel before tightening up. Then you simply pull it out from one end and voila! Gapping complete. I used a section of Weetbix packet. Starts first pull.

Thanks MF.
How here's the thing.
After 3 fruitless hours trying to start the thing on the weekend, today I went out, turned on fuel, gave it a minute to fill the chamber (may have had some left in there from yesterday's failed attempts) , put throttle lever on Start, second pull it starts.
When I have had carby apart the rotating cam seems to be in the right place relative to everything else ie cable position correct. I have noticed however that when running, the slowest running is not when lever at "slow" but about 1/3 - 1/2 the travel between slow and max.

Hi Doug

When you go to start it, do you prime it, push the lever down to run, and then back to start?
Doing this makes sure the kill wires aren't connected. With one of mine, it 100% refuses until this is done - after 10 pulls, it will go - possibly the vibration from pulling the cord eventually jitters them apart.

Also, if slow speed is a fair way down the throttle range , perhaps the cable is maladjusted, and putting it on start still has the stop wires earthed

Regards
Tyler

Thanks Tyler.
The kill wires don't work. I have to stop it either by switching the fuel off or pulling the plug lead off. It used to work but I think a rubber bit has come adrift as the wires wont touch now.
The ramp in the cam in the carb despite going to full lift to bring the wires together doesn't get them to touch and short out.
I agree about the throttle position but checking cam position against the throttle everything lines up, particularly the kill cam ramp, which is fully "up" when throttle in uppermost position.
Doug

Hi Doug,
I'm having same problem with PT.
I am going to put a new big O ring in the carb. . so it seals .and you feel pressure in when you prime....

cheers
speedy

Hi Doug, a couple of things, get a viton tipped float needle, the plastic ones are rubbish. Secondly get an ignition module and then the points are not needed and thirdly read through this and if you follow these steps your 2 stroke will start easily. Speedy I have only replaced one of the carby "O" rings and that was with one off another motor so the need to change the "O" rings every time is another of those You tube furfies
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...arby-repair-modifications.html#Post82288

Hi Norm
I was just reading through that link, what washers do you use? They don't look like the overpriced brass ones that are sold for g4/lm carbies
Are they just regular steel, or stainless. I was told the brass ones are so they don't rust - but I have always thought that was BS.

Hi Tyler, I have no idea where they came from, I ended up with a jar of them years ago. They are a bit of a pain because I have to file them out to fit. As for them rusting the fact there is a fair smattering of oil spraying in around there, so it would take a lot of water to cause rust and as we all know we don't particularly want water in there anyway

Thanks to all for their comments. Have ordered a Viton tip needle.
Norm, it already has coil and module. Resistance in each is 6.7K ohms. I see from PushMowerRepair that module should be 4.54K ohms and coil should be 9K ohms.
Will my numbers cause a problem?
Thanks, Doug

Ok sorry Doug, I just re-read your initial post, so it is a sidepull, what threw me was you were pulling the flywheel off,why? I thought it was an early one with points ignition. You say spark is good and with new plug. My guess is that the float needle will be the culprit. Get a can of starter fluid and give it a quick squirt in the plug hole, put the plug back in and give it a pull and if it attempts to fire you can be 99% sure it is the carby problem. The other 1% then can be is crank seals leaking but that is not very common

Thanks Norm.
I pulled the flywheel (a) to check the top crank seal (perfect; no leaks) , and (b) expecting to find a magneto lurking in there. But the cupboard was bare and I realised I had electronic ignition.
I'll wait and see what the new needle does; if still intermittent I'll attack the cam in the carb.
Doug

Doug, altering the cam does not improve the starting, it only allows a smooth transition up and down of the lifter meaning you can control the poppet opening and therefor the revs. 90% of the problems with these motors (apart from people straight fueling them) is the float needles and it is only in the last 12 months we have been able to get the viton tipped ones and I hope to think that my banging on about the rubbish plastic ones had some part in the new ones becoming available

Doug, another obvious thing is the main jet, make sure that the strainer on it is clear.Once you get the carby sorted it will be a one/two pull max to get it started. The kill switch was just an abomination I believe as the result of a long lunch at Victa headquarters. Fine when new but problematic later on.You need the kill pin in through the end or as I do a 6mm bolt to prevent the cam rotating too far and releasing the cable. I set the poppet on the "C" mark, seems to work best for me there. The 24's are my favorite machine, I build them as often as I can

Many thanks Norm. I note in the EBay page for the Viton tipped needle (which should be here Friday) they suggest using their end cover as the seat hole is bigger and with a chamfered edge to increase contact area with needle tip. Is it worth enlarging the existing hole slightly? And I'll change the poppet to "C" when it's apart next.
This 24 goes anywhere, over rough ground that no ride on can manage. Under bushes etc. No wonder it got a design award.

Hi Doug, bit of a guess with the primer caps they do vary a bit. I got a hundred new caps but quite often I see if I can use the old cap, some work, some don't and even with a new primer cap and needle, my failure rate is about 10%. This is a lot better than the failure rate I was having with the plastic needles which was about 90%.. There is no silver bullet with these but you will get it sorted and then you have one of the best machines ever made. If you end up modifying the carby as per the instructions the starting should be one/two pulls. I fitted one of these carbs last week to a 24 that still had a full crank with a G3 carb fitted, took about 15 mins because I knew it was coming and I had everything ready to go.He rang me yesterday saying it now had so much more power but at idle it was revving fast. It was easy to explain, just bend down and turn the screw on the end of the carb anti clockwise while it was running to get it to the revs he was happy with. If it moves again put a bit of silicone on it to stop it turning.He rang back a few mins later and it sounded like he had mastered something way beyond his capabilities, amazed something could be that simple. I used to always put a bit of silicone on the thread but I got a bit slack with them recently because I have been doing so many of them. I made up another 20 of those caps last night, not long since I made up the last 20

Hi Norm, don't want to waste you time and have read other threads but can't find the answer. Is the problem with the needles that they don't seal or they do and stick closed? Most of the time when I pull the plug after failed attempts to start the plug is dry. And will sometimes start if I let it sit for 30 mins with the tap on.
However, I have also had a wet plug when it won't start too.

Hi Doug, the wet plug/no start syndrome baffles me, only thing I think happens is the needle allows it to flood. The big problem with the plastic needles is generally they stick in the seat and you really can't see anything to prove that it is not letting fuel flow, others just won't seat and fuel pours out the primer bulb. As soon as this happens, depending on how quickly you notice the fuel running out this can flood the crankcase and then it is quite an effort to clear that. With the plug out and pulling it over fuel can spurt out 4 feet. I still occasionally have this occur with the viton tipped needles but the problems have been reduced 10 fold. If a motor with a new primer cap and needle fitted and it won't start I give it a tap on the top of the carby and usually this drops the needle out of the seat, vise versa if the the primer bulb pours fuel, if it happens turn the fuel off and tap the carby then turn the fuel back on,usually this stops it. If you get it quick enough hopefully it won't have flooded the motor. They are not perfect but the best we can get and usually after a couple of days the fuel swells the viton enough to get it to work properly

Hi Doug
If you get sick of waiting for the new needle, you could always slightly (and i mean very slightly) sand the edges of the plastic needle to see if that's causing the sticking. I have seen one (obviously aftermarket) one that seemed to have swelled laterally and would stick. Sanded it a little, seemed to work (threw it out though).

And another strange case was a primer plate put on upside down, but the partially stuffed needle would let enough fuel to flood after 5 minutes.

New needle is definitely the way to go though.

Thanks to all for advice.
Only one more sleep till the needle arrives.....