OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Tech Talk Re: Qualcast Side Wheel - Penetrating Oils

G'day Ian et al,

Well, I just had to try it.

For the first test I had two identical engines (Honda Gxx) both had been subjected to flood water at the same time some years ago and were literally FULL of water when I got them home. I filled the first one to the brim with kerosene/oil mix. This was 6 weeks ago. The other I didn't do anything with until this weekend just gone when I tried the magic brew.

I had been gently working the kero oil machine over the past weeks and it finally freed up last Wednesday (5 and a half weeks). The ATF machine had freed up in a few hours!!

The other one I've tried is using it to free up a stubborn exhaust joint at work. For this we normally get out the Wurths Rost off. It's the best we've found for this. The ATF mix attempt took no time at all!

I'm not suggesting this is conclusive proof- far from it - but it is compelling and I will be trying it more.

I do have a couple of questions and observations however.
1. Why acetone? Would ATF and kero work just as well?
2. In hot weather will the acetone evaporate too quickly leaving just ATF? Your from Townsville, Ian, how do you find it?
3. I'm a little wary of getting the mix on enamel or acrylic paint as the acetone will soften it?

But all in all, I'm excited! For my next investigation the Hondas that I freed up are both attached to similar ride-ons (yes, dear readers, they're Geenies ) both of which are v rusty and both of which will be dismantled. One has been given WD40 to soak in and the other the brew. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

Thanks for the tip Ian.

Cheers,

I believe acetone is used because it has such a thin viscosity and carries the ATF (which it thins) deep into the seized pieces. I too would be careful not to get it on any surface you are attached to as both the acetone and ATF are best kept off paint etc.
Keep us posted on your experiments.

Well, no. Solvents are characterised by their 'polar' properties, e.g. hydrocarbons [the major components of ATF] are essentially non-polar, and water is very polar. Acetone is fairly polar, but will still mix with ATF, and will wet 'polar' surfaces. It will also act as a 'coupling solvent' in this case, and help absorb any free water that's around into the fluid. Pretty much. You could try a less volatile solvent in the ketone class, e.g. MIBK [PVC pipe jointing primer - not the glue].
Yes, it most certainly will.

G'day Gadge and readers all,

Gadge, way too long since I did yr12 chemistry - and I wasn't real good at it anyway. I was going to ask you to clarify on the polar properties of solvents but I'll ask Google first. Might come back if I get stuck.

I was thinking more in terms of viscosity like slash but obviously there is more to it than that.

Cheers,

Gadge, you seem quite well informed! I'm completely lost, would you mind dumbing it down a shade for those of us not quite up to pace? I drew the assumption that PVC glue primer was pretty much acetone by the smell. Does this mean that the acetone in the mix just thins the ATF and carries it into the rusted bits and then evaporates leaving just ATF, being a thin oil?

G'day slashnburn,
The acetone performs two functions in the mix.

One is, as you say, to 'thin' the mix [i.e. reduce the viscosity] to make it penetrate better.
The other is to allow the mix to 'wet' metal surfaces that are already wetted with water. That's where 'polarity' comes into play.

You know how oil will just roll off any water-wet surface? The acetone is there to prevent that. Straight hydrocarbons, like kero, won't do it.

The MIBK [Methyl Isobutyl Ketone] in PVC primer [the glue is thickened with PVC, so it's not what you need here] is a close chemical relation to acetone [aka Dimethyl Ketone], but it's much less volatile [Boiling Point 118 �C as against 56 �C], though not as good for dewatering. So it can work more better in hot climates, as it doesn't evaporate before it can do its job.

Just as an aside, I use a home-brew solvent mix [called 'Ed's Red'; an update of a US Army Frankford Arsenal formula from the 1920's] for firearm bore cleaning, that's equal volumes ATF, Acetone, Mineral Turps and Kero. Still penetrates quite well, and shifts crud very well. At a lot lower cost than the commercial products.

Thanks Gadge. Do you find that your "Ed's Red" is better than the ATF and Acetone mix for loosening rusted or seized bits?

G'day slashnburn,
Well, I wouldn't really expect it to be as good at penetrating as the ATF/Acetone mix, but as I keep a litre or so on hand, it's easier to just use it.

Thanks Gadge.