OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Other Walk-Behind Rotary Mowers Turner Model 2A With Villiers 7F Automatic Engine

This is a recent EBay win, not to far from me


The seller saved it from the pit at the local tip and bought it from the Tip staff, LUCKY !!
It is fairly complete just minus the front wheels, recoil starter and the original fuel tap, I found out quite soon that the points and condenser were also missing.



The engine was free and had very good compression, I put some oil in through the plug hole to lubricate the bore so as to make it easier to pull over. No spark so I removed the points cover to check things out, no points or condenser present. Luckily I had spares and the small rod that operates the points was still there. Fitted them up and with a turn of the starter there was spark :-). Nice when things go right for a change !

Cleaned out the fuel tank/tap and then removed the carby and rinsed out the fuel bowl, fuel bowl was nearly spotless. Put it all back together and tried to start it up, it would start and then die off. Fitted a new CJ8 plug and it roared into life :-)


[video][/video]


I have seen Alwil's beautifully restored example and noticed a few minor differences

Mine has a very nice Turner Industries badge clipped to the front of the cowl, located between the Turner and Automatic



Mine has Turner in raised lettering on the height adjustment knob






Finally a rather long instructional decal fitted to the cowl which states the fuel mix and starting/stopping procedures



I have a few spare cowls so I will repaint one and fit a replacement decal to it, keeping the original decals intact. Sorry about the photo quality, I took them with my phone as I went. I can take much higher quality ones for the Records if required :-)

i saw that one .but it was too pricey for my budget.glad you got it mate. they look awesome restored.

Hello Paul,

Yes! I saw that one, and was hoping it would go to a member.
These rarely come up for sale. I note the subtle differences you have
mentioned - the knob and that nice Turner Industries badge!

I have linked to this page from the official record:
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=59384

I would not mind a good photo of the underside of the chassis.
I am curious to know if there is any second skirt, or just safety margins
between blade tips and the outer skirt.

I guess you plan to do a comprehensive resto?
It's great informed collectors are seeing beyond Victa.

-----------------------------------
JACK

Thanks mate, it would have been nice if it was a little cheaper but the colour and the sheer "retro" look won me over. It being a runner now makes it worth it and I have a set of front wheels ready to fit once I source some axle bolts.

Hi Jack,
Thank you, I am in two minds about the resto. It's a pity that the cowl was not a little tidier, I will see if it comes up a bit with some TLC. I will take a few better pics for you tomorrow and post them up. So glad I didn't have to do surgery on the magneto on this one :-)

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the pics. No hurry.
The skirt issue is an important one (for history) in identifying what AUS
company was first to use a safety (second) skirt. It certainly wasn't Victa.

Just the 'safety' decal is significant.
By 1960, Manufacturers were taking note of skirting.



Your machine must have looked 'pretty' on the showroom floor.

Cheers
-------------------------------
JACK

Great score Paul, I also saw this on the Bay.

I think Ive still got a nice polished starter here somewhere if you dont have one.

There was also an earlier Turner just recently 4m With the GEB engine, but dont know if it sold.

Full resto would be sweet, but equally good as an enhanced original.

Keep us posted on your progress mate, as there is quite a bit of interest in these:)

Ok Jack no problem, I would be interested to know a little more about the bracket at the base of the handle bars and its function. When used it moves the bars up to a full vertical position, is this just a space saving idea for storing the mower in a tight space or up against the wall ? It will be useful in my shed.

Hello Paul and Mal

I can only speculate and say that the bracket was a safety feature for starting.
The handle in the upright position enabled the operator to get closer to the recoil
starter. I'm not sure whether the idea really had merit. Perhaps Engineer Grumpy
might have some thoughts.

What may have 'killed off' the idea was the Impulse starter from 1960.
It was the 'must have', 'all the rage' feature of the 1960s.
The Impulse starter, itself, would be 'killed off' with the advent of
decompressor engines a decade later.

So, I guess, a nice curiosity that makes this Turner highly collectable.



More than I can handle.
-----------------------------
JACK

Enlightenment, thanks Jack. I will keep that starter in mind Mal, thanks for the offer. Below is a link to a page on Turner Tools, some nice items there. Obviously quality was there mantra.

http://www.htpaa.org.au/turner.php

Hi Paul,

Yep, that's a great site.
The Vice Pres. of that important site is Graeme Plaw.
Graeme was a senior engineer at Turner!
He is also a very nice man.

Turner's slogan was, "Is there a Turner in your home?":
The meaning clearly being about the diversity of their products.
The great British company, Stanley, obviously saw the merit!

The Turner lawnmower story has not been recorded.
Turner entered the market strategically; and exited a decade later,
again strategically. Rene Turner guarded his privacy, and a article
(by me) will eventuate, but probably not this year.

Turner lawnmowers are, in my view, greatly undervalued.
I think you have made a very wise investment here, Paul.

All very Australian.
-----------------------------
JACK

Here are some better pics

Height adjuster with Turner logo highlighted in red



Turner Industries badge located on front middle of cowl



Decal on left of cowl detailing fuel mix and start/stop instructions







Underneath of base




Can't say you weren't warned



Sorted out some axles and fitted a pair of close enough front wheels

looking goooood , you'l have it alldone by the weekend mate

Another job I did today was sort a rewind starter for it, I thought I had one in my spares and I hunted high and low for it. Ended up finding it with my Victa spares, it was a mess with buggered handle and rope, missing screws and a broken spring



Luckily the spring was broken at the end loop



so I heated the end up and after cooling formed a new loop, fitted up a spare rope and handle that I had and all that's left is to find some screw to hold it all together

Thanks, also found a spare on off switch. A bit hard to earth out the plug with the rubber boot fitted.

Not much left now Paul.
Those front wheels look close enough to Turner originals.
I reakon she would polish up a little to.

A few enhancements a decent back wheel a few hubcaps and an original fuel tap and bowl and she will be a beautiful original.

Pretty sure the decals are avaiable for this also if your gonna do a full resto. Hub caps come up occasionally also.

Love it:)

Hello Paul

Thanks for those great pictures.
I now know the base had a double skirt at the rear, but none at
the front. The red 'Turner' on the knob shows the detail of a
well-finished mower.

They don't make 'em like that anymore
--------------------------------------------------------
JACK

"They don't make 'em like that anymore"

With pride and quality !

Starter fitted up and works well





I now have a 7F auto on the Turner and a 7F manual on the Villager



The only problem I have with the Turner is that it won't idle at a reasonable speed, being an auto it has an internal governor. It idles at cutting speed, my understanding was that it would idle and increase the revs in proportion to the load. I am wondering if I have a problem with the internals governor being stuck due to sitting.

Anyone else encountered this problem ?

Hello Paul

That is a nice, sensitive restoration.

The Automatic 7Fs should idle and work as you describe (I think).
They do need to be set up though. I have attached the procedure
for doing this. Maybe it will be helpful.

Hope this helps.
------------------------------
Jack.

Thank you for the information Jack, I will check the adjustments. All the black marks on the base should come off, seems to be a mix of dirt and oil. I think I will leave the base as is but the handle bars will get a touch up. I have a new "Turner Automatic" decal coming which will be fitted to another repainted cowl so as to preserve all the original decals. I will post a pic when it is all done.

Jack, I have finally managed to get a good clear picture of the "Turner Industries" badge if I post it up are you able to remove all the dud pics from my posts ?

Paul

Hello Paul,

That's good news that the base will come up so well.

I have removed the blurred photo and put in the clear one (as you requested).
That badge is really noteworthy as it does not appear to have been
fitted to all machines - including the first four strokes(?).

Also, check out the Carter chassis, Paul [link below].
I think they are identical.



https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=59420

Is there a Turner in your home?
---------------------------------------
JACK

Hi Jack,

First the good news, I have the idle speed down to what I think is about right. The instructions state to gently turn the spindle in a anti clockwise direction and tighten the throttle arm clamp, did this and still had full revs. Deafening ! Tried again and this time put some effort in and the spindle went further, from about 12 o'clock to 11 o'clock position. This bought the revs down to an almost idle which may be right for this model.

I would say that the Turner chassis is from the reworked Carter mould. I notice on the rear platform of mine that there is mould mark which I think blanks out the 18" cut lettering that is present on the Carter. The Made in Australia is left but the Automatic lettering is covered up by the step treads. I guess they did away with the Automatic wording as a manual model was also available? The 18" cut lettering as this was already incorporated as part of the Turner logo on the front.

Now that my base is a lot cleaner I will post a pic of the rear deck showing this.

Hi Paul

AS my favourite Shakespearean character, Shylock, said ... "Oh Great News!"
These 7Fs are really nice little engines, so I am pleased the idle has been sorted.

That's valuable information on the Turner and Carter bases.

--------------------------------
JACK

Hi Jack,

Here is a photo of the base with what looks like a mould revision as to where the "18" Cut" lettering use to be on the Carter chassis






My base cleaned up pretty good so I won't be repainting it



All the best

Paul

Hello Paul

I must admit, I believe you made the right decision for a sensitive restoration.
We now have Al's beautiful fully restored machine as a record; and now your part-
restored machine. It doesn't get any better than this in vintage mower history!

Paul, your observation here is also significant.
The Turner engineers referred to this base as 'the Carter Base'.
This confirms the link between the first Turners and the Carter.
I wonder what 'arrangement' James Kirby and Rene Turner made to make this happen?

All very significant.
----------------------------------
JACK

i also wanted to buy this too dear for me and i had no room though! you can probably to a better job paul, also it takes ages for stuff to happen around my joint! that villager is nice too! does it have the hubcaps you got off me on it?