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The OLD SOAP BOX is the filter forum for gaining valuable information
from members about vintage garden equipment.

The ODK History Forum was opened in early 2014 to record the
rich history of garden equipment in Australia.

It is comprised of a series of posts by specialists in their fields of expertise.
In many cases the information remains incomplete and the writers welcome input from you.

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THE HISTORY FORUM TEAM.

Hello CyberJack,
Read with interest your article about the Carter lawnmower. Working with my elderly father-in-law today cleaning up his yard I picked up a Carter mower base that's been lying around for ages. Suggested sending it off for scrap but he said "No, my mate Blue reckons it's probably worth some money!"
What do you think? There's the base, still with briht yellow original paint, the handle, rusty but sound, all four wheels, alhough they don't turn, and the adjusting mechanism, also frozen solid. Wheels and adjuster would likely free up with RP7, as they're not too bad.
We live in Ravenshoe, inland from Cairns. Any thoughts as to whether it's worth more than the scrap aluminium value?
Thanks,
Jim

THIS ITEM IS FOR SALE: Click HERE.

Hello Jack and ODK members .
Thanks for the information on the Carter mower.
It sure is similar to the Turner base.
In regards to the Turner 4M , I have a similar Turner here which I have been a bit slow in getting around to restoring , (too many things to do in retirement ) but it has a different base and a completely different colour scheme .
I wonder where this fits into the Turner time frame .
Cheers
Al..........

Hey Al,

I cant find it either...

Its running the 3rd generation base, identical to my frankenturner"

Also the colour scheme seems to be that of the later variants.

There is a transitional model, but states a different colour scheme and 2nd generation base...

Im dont know where it fits either, but it looks genuine and original.

Dont know why i cant edit...

Actually I shouldnt rely on my memory and just checked. There are quite a few models before the F62 base (yours) and your engine fittment seems to be long finished. The throw chute guard ive not seen before either. Also judging by the previous models your base is 6th generation and engine is 1st/2nd generation...

It appears an odd one, but I like it:)

Maybe Jack knows for sure...

But who cares...Do it up anyways, it looks a cool machine and complete, besides frankenturner" needs a friend:)

Hi Al, Mal and all,

Who will ever forget the Frankenturner!

I read this as the 'second generation base' - the 18" base introduced
after the first models - the 4m, 2A and 2M.

It was introduced for a clear reason - it could be fitted with an optional grasscatcher.
Al, you are lucky that yours has the side deflector ('windrower').
Turner were one of the first to overtly recognise design safety.

I think this model is a 4BIM (B = second base; I - Impulse start; M = manual throttle)
This has the Kirby GEB - meaning this machine would date between 1960 and 1964 (I think).

"Bride of Frankenturner"

I thought this to jack, 4BIM, but the Colour combo doesn't match and more importantly the Base in the advert is not Als base. Look at the where the side chute goes, there are 2 slits. This is the second generation base as you say, but Als is a 6th gen F62 base, the first of this kind. The giveaway is there are no slits for the chute, als base has two lugs cast into the base where the chute attaches via a pin and spring..

So this is where my confusion lies...Early engine correct colour on a later base. There are 3 more bases between the one in the ad and Als F62.

Anyways It looks the part and who knows what was done back then...Maybe the early base intersected with als on a much closer timeline and they still had the early engines left over.

One other thing to note is the Deflector plate does not match any of the Model Images and looks to be later or modified?

And yeah Bride of frankenstein is Perfect. Lols...

Hi Mal,

Very good detective work.
I know the colour is problematic with the ID chart we are using.
That chart does not run chronologically.

However, the thing I noticed is that Al's machine has the height lever on the L.H. side.
That is good evidence against my initial assessment.

I note that both Al's machine and your machine has lugs for a spring-loaded
deflector (which yours is missing).

Your argument is convincing that this is a later model version of the second base design.

Turner were using the GEB (alongside the LVs) until 1964.
I favour a F61 because of the windrower design (with toe guard).

Is it possible that Al's base is identical to yours?
This is getting confusing

Clearly more work to be done.
-------------------------------------------
JACK.

Naaa I reakon weve got it now...lols.

Yes the height adjust was the other issue.

Yep your spot on, the f61 looks to have the lugs also and correct Deflector.

I noted the base was poor in the image and added it as another different style.

Yes mate, Als base is identical to mine.

So as you say, with an F61 being more suited,This puts als macine even closer to the 4BIM and well within range of an engine intersection im thinking.

Since most mower models are denoted by chassis design Id say That als machine is F61 with the last of the GEB engine fittments and is/was more probably correct as sold.

Unless im mistaken, if Al looks at the rear of the base on top he may see a small pill shaped raised platform with the model no stamped in.

Hey....Maybe I should have just asked Al what the number on the back was! Lmao......

Whater it says 4BCIM or F61 or something not even listed, Im still amazed at how complete and original it is.

Anyway it is what it is, A great early edition to the Turner Archives, especially due to its alternate Engine Base combo...

It looks like they forgot to stamp it.

Lols....Didnt expect that...

Oh well, if thats the case, then Id have to say with what can be seen,and all the info provided that the best explanation is that its a Transitonal Model using up all the old GEB engines on the newer F61/2 bases. Very common practice for a lot of machines back then, including bikes and cars.

Id like to hear Jacks thoughts on this theory.

Either way I dont think it detracts one bit as both engine and base are period correct, and as Jack stated both engines ran side by side. In my opinion it appears to be original release regardless of its lack of model no and unlisted differences.

If it was an earlier gen 2 base with an LV engine Id be more inclined to think it was incorrect and had the GEB fitted at a later date...

Anyway its definately valuable historically as there just arent many Early Turners around. Just enjoy the resto and thanks for putting it up:)

Sorry,


"If it was an earlier gen 2 base fitted with an LV engine Id be more inclined to think it was incorrect and had the more modern Kirby LV fitted at a later date..."

Hi Cj,
My name is Darren Turner and the grandson of Rene William Turner, TURNER INDUSTRIES, MANUFACTURING, Nunawading & Lilydale among other businesses in the Dandenongs and Qld.
I have been researching a bit more of what I don't know about RW and was spun out to come across the Turner 4 Stroke forum.
RW would be so chuffed if he were still with us. Anyway, I am going to be writing a book about him and his pioneering days from being an ophosterer to, of course manufacturing the very first 4 stroke mower. He also made washing machines, drying cabinets etc etc.During the war when they made the fighter planes, they neglected to make certain engine parts, cladding etc removable for repair so, my grandfather was responsible for making the now famous half inch screwdriver.
Anyway, hopefully you may have information that could help me out and vice-versa.
DGT Darren Turner.

Hello DEEGEETEE

Darren, an obvious welcome from me to these great forums.
I feel the Turner story deserves much more credit than has been given.
It is only in recent times that Turner has been recognised by mower
collectors for its contribution of the development of the rotary
lawnmower in this country.

Introducing the four-stroke, and plastic catcher - and the first
major maker to popularize the high-arch mower! Amazing!!!
Everything ahead of Victa!

It is exciting that you are researching for an up-and-coming book. Fantastic!
I will offer every support I can.

I will send a PM with my email address.
[look for the blinking envelope on the menu bar]

---------------------
Jack

Greetings again Jack, after a very long time!
My father-in-law has passed away, and I am cleaning up. The Carter mower base is now getting in my way. Would you like it? You can have it for nothing if you are willing to cover the shipping cost from Ravenshoe, Qld, to you.
Please let me know if you are interested.
Regards,
Jim

G'day Jim

I remember this one - because it was a major breakthrough in the Carter story.
The base - luckily - still has its muffler box.

I am not a collector - although I have a few shaving mugs...

There would be Brisbane collectors would would appreciate
this rare machine - 'The Famous Carter'.

Jim, I think you understand this is a base that should be saved.
You have made a generous offer to ensure it goes to a good home.

I am happy for you to advertise the base in 'For Sale' on these forums.
Folks can PM you with offers. How does that sound?

Cheers
----------------
Jack

Sounds good Jack. Alternatively there is a historical village nearby in Herberton. I will be taking a "Farmer's Boy" rotary hoe there in a few days time. I'll ask them if they're interested, emphasizing how rare it is.
Thanks again,
Jim