OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Honda Engines Honda GVX160

Would anyone please be able to point me in the direction of a repair manual for a Honda GVX160. I have just been given one for free and the only problem is both rear wheels have been removed(and are currently dangling off the handle by a bit of string). I didn't ask why the owner decided to remove them because I was too keen to throw it in the trailer before he changed his mind.
Any help with a manual or failing that any advice on how to put it back together is greatly appreciated.

Ok i guess i should have added that it is a self propelled mower.

Hi Joe, welcome to Outdoorking.

It is the engine that is a GXV160, you haven't told us what the mower is. If it is one of the specifically Australian models, it might be an HRU216, HRU196, or something odd such as a utility. Any HRU model is a specifically Australian effort, and I've never seen or heard of a workshop manual for any of them. Here is an owner manual for one of the international models of 21 inch self-propelled Hondas with the GXV160 engine:
http://dl.owneriq.net/9/9da3d438-eee3-47a6-b571-b9bdab4040f6.pdf

Please post some pictures of your mower, so we can try to identify it.

Post Edit: The mower is not a Honda, it is an unbranded machine that has a Honda engine.

The first question you need to resolve, aside from what model your Honda is, is whether it is in a safe condition to start. That means checking whether the sump is full of oil, and whether that oil is reasonably clean. Having jumped that hurdle, the next step would be to prop up the back of the mower securely with the blades off the ground, and start the engine, following the instructions in the owner manual. See if the wheel drive can be engaged, and whether the rear axles rotate when you do so. If they do, you can begin to hope the previous owner's problem was with the over-running clutches on both rear wheels. If the axles do not rotate, you have a lot more to worry about than wheels and wheel-clutches, and we can get focused on the (rather complicated) Honda self-propulsion system.

Thanks Grumpy. A forumn that actually offers useful advice is a breath of fresh air. Here are a couple of pics of the mower(he types optimistically before attempting to find out how to upload pics). Suspect it is an el cheapo made in china version as is the motor.
One rear wheel appears to be missing the drive cog, both wheels appear to missing a bush or bearing. I have not had time to investigate further but the previous owner (elderly gentleman) did say the motor ran perfect and I just needed to re attach the wheels. I suspect there may have been a problem with the drive mechanism as you intimate and he pulled off the rear wheels to investigate then ended up losing interest as well as a few parts.
Suspect I will similarly loose interest and it will end up on ebay as is because I am just too snowed under and can't spend too much time on it. I now have 3 Honda mowers in the cue and as much as I'd like to I just don't get the time to tinker with them.



Thanks again for your advice.

The GXV160 engines are just about all made in China these days, and have been for some time. It doesn't seem to be a problem.

Here is an exploded view of the wheel parts, with part numbers, from the Honda parts list:
http://www.planopower.com/store/honda/honda_rear_wheel_hrc216s.php

As with many Honda designs, it is rather complex compared with many other mowers, but probably works better than most as well. I think you can clear up your problem just by identifying the parts from the exploded view, and seeing whether you have them all, as well as how to put them together.

Being a self-propelled Honda, that is a very expensive lawnmower, which looks rather new, but would probably sell for peanuts on ebay in an incomplete non-functional state. I'm not up with current models but that one may be a "parallel import" of an American model not imported through Honda Australia and not warranted by them. It is probably less than an hour's work to put it together and make it worth over $1,000, provided you have the grass catcher for it.

Perfect. Thanks for that. Just what I was after.
Blimey, I didn't know they were that expensive and yes I do have the catcher.
Need to go back and see the guy later in the week so will ask him if he has any bits left over. He is a very well to do retired gentleman for whom I often do favors for at short notice which he obviously appreciates.
Looks like all that's missing is the inner bearing for each wheel, item 3, and the cog, or ratchet as they call it, for the left side axle, couple of bolts and washers to hold the wheels on which I should have by the dozens in the garage.
I'll take your advice and check that it's all running and no other problems with the drive before I start ordering parts. However if it all starts to get too complicated and time consuming she'll end up on ebay because like it's original owner I need the time more than I need the mower.
Can't thank you enough for your help. First time I've ever posted a question on a forumn and actually got some useful advice. Awesome mate.

You're welcome Joe, help is what we come here to provide.

The wheel ratchets are wearing parts on mowers with that style of self propulsion, and there seems to be a lively business selling spare ones. An issue with one of the ratchets may be what caused the owner to take it apart in the first place.

Hi Grumpy, Not quite rid of me yet. :-) Had a quick play with the mower this evening. 2 pulls and the motor purrs like a kitten but as suspected no drive, which solves the mystery as to why someone would pull the wheels off a $1000 mower and then give it away but unfortunately doesn't auger well for a quick fix.
The shaft wants to turn but no cigar. Quick look underneath reveals what looks like a square gearbox on the left side of the axle. There is a pulley at the top with a belt that engages when the drive lever is depressed. Belt seems to engage fine so all that is working ok. The pulley appears to be stiff and difficult to turn by hand. But when you do manage to turn it the wheel drive cogs rotate as they should. At this point had to flip it back over as it was dripping fuel on the lawn. I will take the cover plate off the gearbox tomorrow and check what is happening inside. Any ideas as to what I should be looking out for.?
Now that we are getting into the innards that exploded diagram doesn't seem to be the same as what's on the mower but it was still very useful to figure out which cogs and bearing were missing on the actual wheels and axle. But the drive bit doesn't appear to correlate. Though this could be me. I will know more after I drain the fuel and remove that cover plate off the gearbox.
Having said all that any advice on where I may be able to pick up any parts that are needed? Would they be available on this site's online store or should I order them from the US website the diagram was on?
Cheers.

Hi joeblo,
Can you give a photo of gearbox with cover off please so I can see if I can help.

Joe, please do as Rob (roebuck) asked and post pictures of the transmission, including with the cover off.

As a modern self-propelled Honda, I think your mower probably has the Honda hydrostatic transmission. Here is a video showing someone working on that transmission - please take a look and see if it is the same as yours:

Hi Grumpy,
Backed by the confidence of knowing I had a good forumn I could turn to for advice if I ran into trouble via yourself and also Rob who has also kindly offered to help I got stuck into this thing this afternoon and together we have had some great success in identifying the problem. (Grab a coffee this is going to take a while.
The gearbox is similar to a HRB216 or HRB217. Looks like the HRC216 may have been correct after all and the actual gearbox for that model has been discontinued and not shown hence I couldn't see it in the diagram you pointed me to. (which I now think is the correct one or very close to it)
http://www.planopower.com/store/honda/hrz216tda.php
Pic of gearbox assembly in situ. Note belt in disengaged position.


Pic of gear assembly with the cover removed. Very little to it. Pulley connects directly to a (semi) worm gear that drives the main drive gear. Will be clearer in pics that follow.


Here it is removed from mower and simply separates once top cover is removed.
Note worm gear and pulley shaft has a pressed in sealed bearing held in place by the visible circlip. Even in this disassembled state the pulley is stiff and difficult to rotate. Seriously suspecting this bearing is shot. Hoping its just a bearing an not some complicated minature clutch mechanism as it's difficult to tell while inside the casing.


Closer view of worm gear and bearing.


Shaft and bearing removed. I'm no expert but I think it's toasted. Rubber seal has been completely cooked.



Unfortunately it doesn't look like you can get individual parts for the gearbox but even if I need to buy a whole new gearbox assembly it will still turn out to be a cheap mower. But I will pull that bearing off tomorrow and get the vernier calipers out and measure it because I am pretty sure it will just be a standard size sealed bearing that I can pickup anywhere, or on ebay.

However after all that I am still missing one of the axle cogs and the a couple of wheel bushes/bearing which I may need to get from a Honda parts supplier.
Any advice on the best place to order them from.

Thanks again for all your help.

That is quite different from what I expected in several respects, Joe. I'm very glad Rob was on the case. That is an extremely simple transmission, a single speed bevel drive that is clutched by tightening and loosening the belt. It should have lasted forever, with an occasional belt replacement - I'm inclined to guess that there has been a preload error on that pinion bearing, causing it to foul its trousers almost immediately from new. Unfortunately you are going to have to clean everything up very well - there's nothing like swarf attaching itself to the crownwheel to mess everything up. What I don't understand yet is how the mesh is adjusted, and how the pinion bearing preload is controlled. I'm looking forward to more detail on the bits now, as you get to the bottom of it all. Please remember not to try to force things into place by tightening bolts: that may have been what somebody did last time, and caused this debacle.

Ballraces usually have a number on the side of the outer ring, and if you look that number up on the internet, you can find out its availability. Most types are available on ebay at favourable prices.

Oil seals are not as standardised as ballraces, but for lip seals, if you know the inner (shaft) diameter, the outside diameter, and the width, you can search ebay in a flash.

Ignore the 3rd pic. It is an out of sequence duplicate of pic 5

Hi Grumpy and Joeblow, thankyou for those great photos Joeblow.
I've recently been working on a hru 214 (gxv 120) 2 speed gear box which is quite different to what you have.
Great job and very interesting.

Hi guys, We must have posted at the same time and my post about the out of sequence pic ended up being out of sequence itself. Damn, I was hoping Rob may be able to shed some more light on the issues raised by grumpy. :-)
I am not across the proper technical terms for the various parts but good job so far deciphering my gibberish. Yes that load issue Grumpy mentions between the 2 gears also has me bamboozled. The position of that spring and tension direction is almost counter intuitive. The main gear is fixed in position and pinned in place on the axle so there is only one place it can go. The gearbox casing can move along the axle but only in the direction which increases the load between the 2 gears. That spring must be there to absorb some of that load and provide a bit of flexibility to prevent cracks and breaks etc. Once the casing is in place on the axle by depressing the spring and fitting the lips of those 2 alloy blocks on the axle inside the gearbox casing it has to be right because there is absolutely zero adjustment that I can see. The only way that I can see to adjust that load is by varying the thickness of the washer you see just to the left of the main cog. You can see it if you look closely in pic 4, between the cog and the alloy block on the axle. The protruding bit between the cog and the wash is part of the cog. I guess you could also machine that down a bit also to lighten the load but not exactly what you would call user adjustable. Probably a common failure due to this shortcoming and maybe why this gearbox has been discontinued. Or maybe this is an el cheapo gearbox that was never fitted on any real Honda's. Who knows.

Let's address this one point at a time. First, the pinion bearing is the part that failed. Is it (really, I mean was it) a double-row bearing? That would be a cheap way to avoid the whole preload issue. It doesn't tell us why it broke up, but for the moment we can hope it was just lack of lubrication at the Honda factory. You need a new bearing of course - please post a picture of the numbers on the side of the outer ring of the old bearing if you can.

Second, there is the issue of how the clearance between the crownwheel (the large bevel gear) and the pinion (the small bevel gear) is managed. The pinion is in a fixed position. We haven't yet seen how its location is determined, it may use something rudimentary like a circlip at one end and a shoulder in the housing at the other end. Please post pictures when you dismantle the pinion and pinion housing. The crownwheel is pushed in the out-of-mesh direction by a spring, and its actual position is set by the flanged aluminium block behind the crownwheel's support spacer. Note the grubscrew in that spacer which keeps the axle shaft from slipping through and getting out of position. It appears the gear to gear clearance is permanently set by the flanged block and the width of that spacer. There may have been selective assembly at the factory, probably by choosing the correct spacer to get the required clearance, but it is not really critical, given that the parts rotate rather slowly and are not going to cover a whole lot of miles in the life of the mower. It seems a simple and effective design which should be highly reliable. Nothing needs to be done to it except clean it all up properly to remove the swarf that will currently be in everything. When you put it back together, the mesh will be right, as long as you don't make any mistakes.

I do not think the pinion bearing failure was caused by incorrect clearance between the gears, I think it began with failure of the pinion bearing. I think if there had been lack of clearance between the gears it would have been likely to result in heavy wear on the aluminium block where the crownwheel support spacer bears against it, and that wear would quickly have provided the necessary clearance. Note that even if everything is working well there must be some wear on that block, because the spring pushes the crownwheel against it. Furthermore in its last days the breakup of the pinion bearing provided a large supply of swarf which will have embedded itself in the crownwheel's teeth, and that will have caused heavy pressure trying to move the crownwheel away from the pinion. Hence there will be signs of excessive pressure between the spacer and the aluminium block anyway, due to those last days when the gears were swarf-lubricated.

My guess is that what you have is a transmission design that was probably very reliable indeed, but had the disadvantage of only providing one speed. American mower buyers seem to be greatly attracted to a choice of speeds, so Honda provided 2 speed, 3 speed and ultimately hydrostatic gearboxes to give the customer what he or she wants.

Pretty sure the closest this transmission and frame have ever been to a Honda factory is the sticker on the engine. It's rubbish and probably a generic single speed cheapie that appears, or is soon to appear, on all self propelled mowers sold out of Aldi and K-Mart. That said it's probably just a matter of time before the whole gearbox becomes available on ebay for 20 bucks free postage out of china. Ive decided it's just now worth the effort repairing given that I also need to chase up a drive cog for the wheels. Will remove all that paraphernalia, slap the wheels back on and leave it as a good push mower.
Interesting exercise though and a good warmup before I tackle the other real Honda. Haven't looked at it since I got it 12 months ago so no idea why it too was given away. For some reason people keep giving me mowers. Probably trying to tell me something about the state of my front garden.

I think I'd rather fix it as good as possible and tapped a grease nipple into it . Was looking forward to the end result.

I think with a clean up and simple repair, that would be the best single speed transmission I've ever seen.

Hi guys, Here is an update which may be of use for future reference to anyone who stumbles across this post. My youngest son turned up today and the first thing he said when he got out of the car was "where did you get the Toro mower" So after I pick my jaw up off the ground I ducked down the back shed where I remember having a Toro Recycler. (another freebee waiting for attention.) Flipped it over and the transmission and setup is pretty much identical. Looks like this thing is an unbranded version of the Toro frame and transmission, or at the very least a cheap copy of one.
The bearing in question is 12mm inside diam, 32mm outer and 14mm wide. Quick lookup on a bearing cross reference chart shows the number is 62201RS available anywhere for around 15 bucks.
Looking further and the whole transmission is available for under $100 from the usa. (includes delivery)
A transmission gear kit is available for about 40 bucks on ebay. 13 available/17 sold just on one seller gives an indication of its reliability or, giving it the benefit of the doubt, an indication of how common it is.
The bearing failure seems to be a common problem given it could not be in a worse environment. When I pulled the old bearing off the shaft it was caked with grit, grass and dirt between the rollers.
Will order a new bearing and put this transmission back together out of curiosity. (resisting the temptation to just swap it out with the Toro in the shed as it seems ok at a quick glance). Might try adding a rubber cap around the shaft, pushed down as close as possible to the case to add and extra layer of protection which should prevent at least some of the dust and grit from getting into bearing via the space between the shaft and case. (Also probably a good idea to rip the cover off these things once in a while and give the gears a clean and re-grease.)
Hopefully will find some time to put it back together soon and will then post the result and pics.