OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Finding and Swapping Rare Finds & Donations Victa Blade washers

A friend dropped around yesterday with a set of these blade washers , does any body know what these are about ...

Its just an older blade and bolt set. They are basically the same as current sets.

Washer onto Bolt,then bolt through blade then insert into the base. Then felt over bolt on the other side,then dust cap over felt,then finish of with the nut. The felt was coated in oil and kept the bolt to blade surface dust free and lubricated. Thats it.

The dust cap and felt actually resemble the inner wheel dust caps which also used the same principle of lubrication and stopping dust from scoring the axle.

Anyways a cool find.

Im sure I still have at least one blade plate in my pile with these on them.

They did away with the dust caps early on, and were eventually replaced by std bolt sets you see today.

Thanks Bluegmhtmonaro for the info , i thought they were pretty neat and worth while showing them

Well, not really the same; actually quite a bit more complicated than the later sets. Bushings and washers everywhere...

These were used on the early Victa type 9B blade carrier disc, that was fitted to the 1955-60 18" models; the Rotomo's through the Model 5. This used P/No 9-024 blades, very similar to 9-150's but with a smaller hole.

Quite rare these days, as most were replaced in service by the later type 9C carrier, that used the then current P/No 9-150 blades and P/No 9-164 shouldered boltset.

How the assembly went together:



The 9B carrier:


The blade mounting bosses were brazed into the carrier, and as can be seen in that pic, were very subject to adjacent cracking. They also had an Oilite type sintered bronze bush pressed into them. So each blade mount had, aside from the bolt and nut, two bushings and six assorted washers.

Even back in the 70's, if a mower came in for service with the old setup, it was way cheaper for the customer to just change out the carrier, than to muck around with all the old bits. Victa supplied the 9C carrier ready-fitted with blades back then, for just this swap.

Gadge , Thanks for the pics and the info , much appreciated , Its great when you come across old parts like this , it just makes you sit back and have a think , Thanks again for this ,

De nada, David.
It's certainly interesting that Woolworths found it worth their while back then, to market their own house brand of such bits. What are known as 'fast-moving parts' these days.

It's a bit like the local Ritchies IGA supermarket in my town. They opened up a somewhat 'experimental' Mitre 10 hardware section a year or so ago. Which does sell garden machines. Not much in the way of even fast-moving parts for them, though. Still, it's a bit surreal to walk past the push and ride-on mowers on display next to the meat cabinet, though!

Hi all,

That's a nice little find David M.
From my perspective there is a story in this. Gadge's observation is of some significance:-
actually quite a bit more complicated than the later sets. Bushings and washers everywhere...

I think that over-complication combined with the critical design flaw of offering
poor bolt-head protection led to some serious concerns and government enquiries into mower safety in the 1960s.

Here's a typical article:-


Uniform safety standards were introduced from about 1967.
The big players had already taken action by this time and the word 'safety' was
a key word in advertising by then. Victa and Turner were key players in
introducing safer designs - safety skirts, stepped blades, etc.

A Note on the Woolworth's package, circa 1960s.
Given what I've just said there is some dark humour in that packaging. It invites speculation ...

[1] The Title, in big words, "Rotary Mower Blade Set" is of some concern,
suggesting that these could fit all rotaries. "Will Fit Victa" seems to be a bonus.

[2] The funny bit for me is that the blades and bolts are missing, but the washers and felts remain...
Victa: Turns grass into lawn sounds better than Victa: Turns feet into meat.

p.s. "Still, it's a bit surreal to walk past the push and ride-on mowers on display next to the meat cabinet"
I hope they are choice cuts.

All very interesting.
-------------------------------------
JACK

Got to thank you Jack for this news paper cutting and the history behind it all , I loved the comment about turning feet into meat , Nothing like the good old days where every day had a challenge , Must admit all you guys have come up with some really good info on these washers , also i have found it pretty interesting myself ,
----------------
David ,

Hi David, Blue, Gadge and ODK members,

David, you supplied good fodder for a good story.

Here is a bit more, currently offered on an auction site, it's a reproduction advertisement
for an after-market blade capture system, replacing the early victa bolt, nut and felt washer design.
The seller claims - credibly - that it is from 1961.

I'm not sure how it protected the "blade holder disc from wear"...
I assume/hope the blade was still free to rotate for engine shock protection.

I note that the blade bracket is slanted, explaining the "latest UPDRAUGHT Mowing method"
That feature would have been lost on a utility mower I would have thought...

Anyway, any thoughts welcome.

WOW !!!! ,
CyberJack , This Quick change blade attachment looks great !!! , You know there has probably been alot of thought put into this and trials done and the proud designer even took out a patent on his idea , so my thoughts are : it is a must have item for my Victa !!! , for only 20/- , give me 2 sets at that price ,
Dont hold back on any of the old brochures you may have tucked away because this is pretty interesting reading and to have something to compare with mowers of today ,
David .

The patent was only applied for, but not proceeded with. Still an interesting read, though. PDF [274kB] attached.

Dunno about the practicality of this setup; it would have taken up quite a bit of room under the blade carrier disc, and restricted the maximum cutting height considerably.

The inventor's timing was a bit late in the day too; he put this gadget on the market after Victa had come up with their own solution to worn bolt heads and the complex bush/washer system; the shouldered bolt, with a diamond-shaped boss to engage the matching carrier hole. Which they have used ever since...

Hi Gadge and ODK members.

See David, I said this was good fodder

Gadge, thanks so much for posting the patent application.
I concur with your summation of the design. Great stuff.

Timing was of the essence back then, and manufacturers came up with simpler and safer
designs (as you say), whilst still retaining the well-understood bolt & nut idea.

The new ideas of the recessed bolt head, the stepped blade, the slotted blade holder,
and radically new blade holder designs all offered simpler solutions to the safety problem.

In SAFETY, I think the Golden Rule is to never underestimate the stupidity of the public.

It could be argued though, that the timing of the inventor's idea was too early.
Non-bolt&nut blade capture systems are now not uncommon on commercial machines.

Here, I specifically refer to flail mowers and some really heavy-duty modern rotaries.
From at-least the 1970s flail mowers have had quick release designs, like pins and
spring clips. I mean, who would want to undo 40 or 100 bolts to replace the flail set?

All very interesting.
--------------------------------------
JACK.

Here are another set of blades for a toe cutter complete with felt washers and bolts ,

Hi David,

Another different branding...

I managed to score a few sets a little while back as all my blade carriers are First gen and only use this style.

The main drawback with this setup is there are other parts that wear and need replacing and dont come in this kit.

Since I use this style regularly, I bought brass tubing for re sleeving and steel tube for the bolt bushing. I just press the old bushes out and cut new ones to length. Once this is done its just as easy, if not easier to change than the later style blades.

The bolt and blade assy lock down on the internal steel bush and hold the assy tight, while still allowing the blades to move in the carrier housing. They unlike later blade styles need to be well lubricated as they are still metal on metal and dont like debris and dust.

One of my sets is titled Victa blade set, but is also made by another am company. I guess it shows there was just as much variety in AM parts as there is today.

True, unless the bolt head is too worn to get a grip with a spanner. Add a bit of thread rust, and they become a right bugger. That's where the later bolt with the head recessed into the disc is superior, from the serviceman's point of view.
Sure; that's why the original pressed-in carrier bushing is 'oilite'; which is very porous oil-impregnated sintered bronze granules, rather than solid brass. Or it might have been the steel bush which was the sintered, oily type - haven't handled an OEM one for over 30 years now!

Oilite tubular stock is still around I think; but if the OD has to be machined, it takes special care to avoid any 'smearing' of the sintered metal granules, which tends to block the pores. Light cuts at high speed, with a very sharp, honed HSS lathe tool is the go.
If not more so; when we have just two main Oz aftermarket wholesalers, and one is US-owned now [Stens/Bynorm; owned by Ariens].

I received this set today

Later packaging ? 80c :-)

Here is the back

In regards to the Bronze bushings, The bronze bush is pressed into the carrier and the Blade bush is Mild steel.

Yes they used bronze for this specific purpose, just like You would use graphite to lubricate. My reason for use of brass is easily obtainable, low use, strong and a perfect ID/OD. If brass is good enough for a replacement small end bush, then I'm more than happy to go this way for low use Restorations, than to have to locate, ream, or bore a bronze bush.

In regards to ease of change for repairers, absolutely! but as I stated, once the bush has been replaced and new bolts fitted, then it will be years before a bolt head would be irremovable.

The main aim of using this style by myself and other restorers is purely for originality, and highlights the procedure for correct replacement of the complete blade bolts and bush for those who've not seen this system. So Its difficulty to change in comparison to the later style system is irrelevant.




Good score Paul.

These are the later blade and bolts to suit your Specials blade carriers( second gen carrier type) and later Styles. And yeah later packaging, but still quite early.



Just curious, what carrier is your Roto 3 running? It should be the later type, but with your serial no so low id like to see for certain.

A quick off topic...I missed a Model 4 std with a 130,000 serial yest. It would have to be the earliest Non Auto Ive seen. Not much gap when my latest recorded auto is 128,500. Would have loved it as it confirms yet again the Autos true end.

I will put up a pic of the carrier tomorrow when I get some shed time.

Cheers Mate...

I was working out the packaging timeline...

Original packaging for blades/bolts was a paper envelope.

Then your Orange card in shillings,then in cents.

After this there was a few more colours and styles.

Ill post a pic of an original 56/7 Rotomo Period concord blade packet when I can.

Hi All , there is some really good info and pics that is coming out of this collection of blade and carriers , HT6 I see the price on the back of my latest set of blades is .19 cents , if this is any help with a time line ,and paul_c i am looking forward to seeing the picture of your blade carrier , and HT6 get that camera happening with the 56/7 Rotomo blade packet , its always good to share these finds ,