OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Collectors Corner Identification of Particular Machines Victa Model 4 Automatic Specifications

So onto Chokes/air cleaners,
it is confirmed the "perdicta" as with all Model 4's had the small white choke, it is not clear when the changes of style came about (yet) but just a bit to clearify what is known, The "Predicta" Automatic had the Sad face victa with red writing as did the Rotomo model 1, 2, 2a.



next came the small white choke with the straight "victa" at this point unknown as to when it was introduced and took over from the sad faced choke, presumably with the Model 5 series 1, (red writing).





Later on (unknown) it did not have victa on it at all only the words "Start" & "run" also red writing.



These type of chokes run right up to the late part of the Model 5 series 2 when some late series 2 and series 3 obtained the new large Black choke that was mounted on a shorter air intake tube.

large black choke.

Hi Jack and all members,
Thanks Jack for your contribution to this archive....

This photo of the factory shot from the 70's is interesting as it depicts what appears to be a timeline of Victa mowers each with its own significance...What I find unusual is the absence of the Model 4 Automatic (Predicta) which was a significant (but flawed) design of the times.....

Hmm, judging by the newest mower in that shot, I would guess it to be about 1978. Odly familiar though, I think I have seen this photo... well, more to the point, that chrome power plus, before.

Maybe the predicta still held too bad of a name for victa then?

You properly seen that picture from me Ty I've had that one for a while. As far as the automatic not being their I guess it had left a bad taste in their mouths. Most company's if a flop is done don't really like to reflect on it,just move on. Just say yes we did that it flopped and we won't flop again. It really only became popular due to its rareness and collectibility. Well that's what I think. I mean the thought was there it just didn't work the way it was planned to.

It's true, back then it would have been only about 20 years old, and I doubt lawnmower collection was a huge thing for it. just as a 1993 powerotrque is not collectable today.

and yes, this being a Victa event, well, they indeed would have just been old flop parading.

Hi all,

I know it's off topic, but I have to agree with the comments about the Automatic.
It really was Victa's Ford Edsel, and, as said, you don't parade flops.
They are so collectable now because they tell great stories about failure.

I do have to ask the experts here - Deejay, Mr Davis, Blumbly - a couple of question
I have no answers for (I'm no Victa expert).

What evidence is there that Victa tried to downplay the Automatic, post its demise?
Did it have its own Victa Code?
Does it appear in the main 'Green' parts books?

All very interesting.
-----------------------------------------
JACK

I know a number of the parts books and guides for the era do not cover it, i dont have my green book handy, but in my gregory's manual, there are no automatic specific parts.

I also know in the later part of it's lifespan, they released it without the flaps ir governing, essentually making it a model 5 with automatic badge. Also, it never received a v code.

Originally (I don't know the numbers)(I'm not sure anybody knows the numbers) there was a set numbers made. Lets say 40,000 mowers. So everything went into production and the automatic was born. Now they just weren't working the they were surpose to. All sorts of different problems,now remembering production was in full swing at this time. Couldn't just stop as that would be a huge waste of money. So to get over this problem the automatic was stopped and they then proceeded with the model 4 standard. Which was the automatic minus the guards flaps etc.The model 4 standard still the the handle badge still marked automatic. After all they had been made all the parts.The model 4 standard was born. Yes they had a victacode,just can't remember it off hand. To the green book question yes and no. I know that sounds silly but some of the earlier prints had them in it. The theory is that when it flopped dealers were told the throw out the automatic pages. So there are some but they are as rare as the mower itself.
Hope this is of some help.

They would have had a parts code at the time, but I certainly can't find evidence there vas any V-code assignment (The V-Code being the designated parts code system Victa released in 1970 I beleive) at the release of the V-Code system, V-Codes were assigned to prior models right back to the Model 1, however the Model 4 is not mentioned at all in the V-Code release papers, assignemts going 2a (V3) Model 3 (V4) Model 5 (V5) as below.



Also, in one of the parts guides (1955 - 1969, available on Victa's website from 2007 - 2009) there is also no model 4, again, 1, 2, 2a, 3, 5.

It did have a victacode but when the project was scrapped so did the code. I couldn't find the documents I was looking for last night on the automatic. Did a very long day at work yesterday hopefully I can have another look this afternoon.

Are yo sure, I don't think V-Codes existed till 1970!

Yep I'm fairly sure it was on the document I was trying to find. I'll have to try and find it soon. Everything on my computer has been moved. Doing a clean install.

Yes but not only the Automatic missing from the photo, I have also wondered about the missing V code.

I seriosly do not think it had one, as I have said, everything Ihave found points towards V-Codes not existing till around 1970.

They were applied to models made before 1970 retrospectivley, and having been scrapped from the line up, the Model 4 missed out.

I'm guessing the code Blumbly reffers to as being scrapped at the same time the Model 4 was must have been some other sort of referncing code, as I can't find a shred of evidence V-Codes existed back then, and it's a little hard to scrap something you havent thought of yet (although I have done it... I think... Maybe)

Prior to the V-Code system of 1970, I believe you just relied solely on your model number (Model 2, Model 5, Model 505, etc.) and whilst the model numbers still continued after the 1970 introduction of the V-Code system, they were no longer used for parts (The VC-160 of 1970 has the V-Code V80, however it's actual model number is 70VJ)

OK guys, so I got myself a little gem the other day that I will post up some details about as there has only been speculation about, The straight Tommy bar plug spanner, also touch on the bent Tommy bar spanner. So check out the headings for each pic for any details. As previously mentioned the straight bar was used for the Romoto and the Automatics until the idea to include a toe ring tool (hoop/spring/clip on type) and the other end to assist with the height adjuster this is the last pic of the bent Tommy bar spanner.

The Straight Tommy bar spanner has a bar 153mm = 6" long it is 6 and a tad mm = 1/4" thick.




I have knocked the bar out to show how the bar is held in to the main body of the tube spanner, these dents around the bar seem to be just done with like just a small cold chisel of sorts to deform the bar just enough to hold it in place.






just a couple of pics showing the ends in good condition.





Bent Tommy bar spanner.



I hope this info can be of use to someone as I know myself I was looking at how to replicate an original Straight Tommy bar spanner as these originals are getting far and few between.

This information is posted courtesy of CyberJack
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi ODK members,

The Red Tickler is confirmed:-

Red carby tickler as below.

Jonesy, re the straight tommy bar, those measurements and images match mine exactly - nice work keeping this thread going also mate!

Ah good to confirm yours is the same, been waiting for you to chime in on the straight Tommy bar spanner, at least that should confirm as correct. No worries, there is always something to post about these machines and if I can play a small role in confirming details about the Model 4 Automatic (or any of these fine Victa's) then that will help with archives for all in the future.

These ads give a nice indication of production rates over 1958 and 1959. 150,000 mowers between February '58 and March '59!:

February 21, 1958 - Daily Mirror


February 9, 1958 - Sydney Morning Herald


November 23, 1958 - Sydney Morning Herald


March 22, 1959 - Sydney Morning Herald



These figures could prove quite useful in working out a date/serial number correlation also.

Hi Unkie, and welcome back mate, we have all missed you around here, and thanks for this info...as Jonesy has said, in another thread, this is terrific for this valuable archive.
Many thanks mate,

Yeah Unki, thats pumping them out and could be why there are still so many Model 5 series 1 mowers about. but even the last add was 5 months before the predicta Automatic finished and they were prodominant in all adds (or model 4 Specials)but must not have contributed to many of the 150,000 numbers?

agreed on the production rates - I had no idea they were pumping out that many. What I do like about those ads is that they give us a rough idea about which month they had reached each serial number:

Feb 58 - #150,000
Nov 58 - #250,000
March 59 - #300,000

what is most interesting is that if they had reached #150,000 by feb, they had already gone well past known production numbers for the automatic, as we know to be likely no later than #130,000. Food for thought.

Here's a nice image of Merv with what I think may be one of the first true Specials:




What is great about this image is it shows the first Special badge we had been discussing earlier, and also a bunch of other details about how the mower was set up. Plastic throttle, toe guard with the loop fittings, and the slit in the front axle housing - also notice the rear nut above the slit on that housing? It's larger than the front one. Why would they have two different size nuts? This explains it:



So the idea was, you were supposed to adjust the height of the mower as usual then tighten the wheel adjusting lock nut with the spanner to lock the height in position. I'm guessing the slit and large nut was introduced to remedy the issue of the the mower losing height through vibration. Perhaps the groove is designed to compress?

Love the image with merv unkie! Note the pullstart carry over and its running the plastic throttle control as well, this id have to agree would be on of the earliest since they abandoned the throttle at this time and also the starter. The starter wasnt reintroduced again until much later in the model 5 run. Model 5 Series 2 I believe. More fantastic info unkie, this thread is fast becoming the premium place for concise info on these models. Thanks to yourself and fellow members. I hope I too can contribute more in the future.

That was my understanding of the height adjustment proceedure exactly, that badge! Hmmmmmm! I wont one

I also just noticed it looks to have the Circlip carby too??? or maybe not. it just looks very square on the edge at the top near the cable entry?? or maybe not

Found these images of the front and back flaps in an old ODK thread and thought it I would repost them here (hope that's ok Blumby!):



They still have the rubber guards which aren't often seen. I've been told that these were available in an aftermarket form at some point, but differ from the originals by not having the Victa logo stamped on the reverse.

here is the original thread for those that are interested:
Predicta flaps

Also, a rear flap has come up on ebay at the moment. For anyone that plans on bidding (not me!), It's worth mentioning that it is missing a bunch of parts including the height adjuster lever, idler adjusment screw and carburettor setting slide, plus the cable. Also the operating arm looks to just about rusted through, but aside from that it's all there lol. at $450 it is probably already overpriced, especially considering its condition, but it'll be interesting to see how high it goes!

Also, cheers Blue - I've not had much time of late to post on here, but I get a real kick out of finding info on these mowers and sharing it - for what it's worth.

And Jonesy, regarding the image with Merv, I reckon that one of those badges may just turn up some day. Maybe they were just made of cardboard or some other perishable material, hence their rarity? At least we know now that they did exist!

I was re-reading this entire Topic the other day and noticed these rubber toe guards as they are listed as, they are on page 3 and some good shots of them, number 5 on the exploded veiw says "saftey rim & rubber toe guards" referring to the bolt on guards and these. More wonders and hard to get parts
and yes I am following the ebay rear flap closely even though not complete is better than the one I have now

Thought it would be good to demonstrate the variation in fuel caps as we haven't covered it in any great detail. Fuel cap designs varied considerably over the life of the Model 4 Automatic, Model 4 Special and Model 5 Special. The image below shows four known variations that were adopted over life of those models.

Beginning with the top left, this version was used on the Automatic and as with the front Predicta flap, is a made of a clear/white plastic, painted with Hammertone. This example came from an Automatic with a serial number in the 117,000s.

Top right we have the version that is most often confused with the "true" Automatic fuel cap. It differs most significantly in that it is made from non-transparent green plastic, and is not painted. This example came off a Model 4 Special with a serial number in the 154,000's.

Bottom left is the version adopted early in the life of the Model 5 Series 1. Black unpainted plastic, with the Victa logo. This example came off an early run M5S1 with a serial number in the 189,000's.

Bottom right is the plain black fuel cap used for the majority of the Model 5's existence. The precise point at which this final state was adopted is not yet clear, but this example came from a Model 5 Series 2 in the 290,000s.

People have been known to try and pass of the second version as the true Automatic version from time to time. The easiest way to differentiate between the two is simply look at the back of the cap, as seen in images 2 and 3.

If I've gotten anything wrong, let me know fellas!