OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Victa Two Stroke Engines The sick victa thoughts please

Hi All


guess this maybe a few questions
and (some if its allowed)
feed back on the non OZ victa's atm

Ok so here the story as you know a small amount of knowledge is a dangerous thing and me and small engines I guess fall into that category

We have this old Clubsman for the last humm 11 years
I think it was late 90's made

No Id guess its done maybe in its life 400 500 hours of service and thats probably over gestimating it

it was alway run on BP Zoom
till somebody decided it was a good idea to get rid of it..
(you dont want to know my thoughts on them...it use to love that stuff)

Now since I inherited the beast I've always tried to run on unleaded regular (no ethanol)
At first I was using 25:1 mix but the whipper snipper wont run that (and done ever try it..one of those DOH! moments I forgot...I have seen comments on other forums yeah just throw 25:1 in it..yeah right dont... alway check what the manufacturer recommends...and I'd even take that with a pinch of salt & do a bit of research)
I'd have to keep two mixtures and run the risk of Doh moments..
plus longer shelf life

So considering mostly these things do maybe 2~4hrs tops in a month
and fuel not keeping so well I have be using the Victa 50:1 (valvoline) in both they seem happy enough...

Anyway the vita has been running poorly lately and I am not sure if its partly cause I may have been using premium 95 fuel...

I dont get the fuel
I always send them to get it at one sevo and it seems they are only selling regular with ethanol now...so maybe
thats the part of the problem (getting 95)

The carby well actually the kill switch set up was doggy and so I have order some carby bits and peaces from Bruce
I got a full snorkel and carby that I can rebuild
(2 complete setups)
The problem seems to be it dont rev up as much as I think it should and dont have the Grunt it once did
(is fuel or old fuel a possibility here..or worse ethanol fuel)

Gee Now if you all haven't fallen asleep yet....

I'll ask the questions

Given the above what else is liable to be wrong?
(given age as well as hours run time)

I am thinking rings are at lest maybe not the best ?

age, use and the fact it is alway starved of fuel to shut down..think the idea of that from the old man, was better to be sure you are not going to have fuel leaking all over the place and he was one to rebuild these things...them and holden greys reds..maybe blues I think too


Compression not sure on it, but it seems reasonable
(no expert here...and why the thought of rings)
(haven't tried the oil trick yet
and do have gauge somewhere..MIA along with victa manual)
(gauge... give a monkey a gun )

Has anyone experimented with premium 95 fuel and oils?
(looks like I am about to...) and thank again guys for the info in the other post on fuel

Now the Biggy
and please if this is a forum No No let me know
and i'll chop(edit) it out..(or can a mod please)

we all have or preferences and views and thats all I am asking for your thoughts on them
not a flame war on whats best..

I'll take PMed thoughts if you dont want say it publicly

here goes

with th current crop of motors from you know who
what sort of like span with reasonable care would you guys think they'll do?
I love the dirty old two strokes they take a lot of abuse & neglect and keep on trucking on (well ok maybe use to)

but kinda think as sale item they'll be history soon
so I am thinking possibly 4 stroke too..thought seems they as in current crop are kinda like the rest of our throw away society

I am thinking of going a Little more then your bog standard b store type unit to one of the upmarket ones
but really would you get any more mileage out of it if it still running the same donk.....
(is quality control better?...he says laughingly)

I do want to keep the beast flying
but I am not sure I got the skills or tools really
to do a major rebuild...

I'll let you know how I go with the carby to start with
when I get the parcel from Bruce ..
thanks mate moneys in the bank

Thank you all

The Beast and she always looks this pretty
(grass & crap be gone)



Are well if its going to get copyright infringed
it may as well go with a bit of free advertising

If I've understood correctly here, you are getting a complete new LM carby?

If that's the case, I would suggest we see how that goes, if there is still a performance issue after that, then it's time to isolate the decompresser, and do a compression test.

In the meantime, drain and clean out the fuel tank, and remove the tap to clean the filter and make sure the lines are free of blockage.

The check the vacuum lines to the Governor and decompresser (these are the other 2 pieces of fuel line coming from the carby) to make sure they are clear (with the Governor line, make sure you can blow fairly freely through it, while it is still on the engine, with the decompresser one (goes to the funny 'mushroom') remove the line entirely to check it is clear)

as you are replacing the snorkel, you wont need to worry about cleaning that before the new carby arrives.

If the mower will be waiting with the carby off, make sure to cover the intake port, to protect the engine from rust.

gee now hope I hit the right reply button

Thanks Mr D

No a rebuild kit plus few other bit and pieces
(new fuel line just in case.. cut out booties..)


what originally happened was the primer bulb developed a leak years ago, so I "think" I just switched it off a new spare setup
(but maybe I changed the whole lot..I just can't recall
I'll have to have a close look for wear and tear)

So thought well I'll get a new one and a rebuild kit and hope thats enough with a bit of a clean...

seems with lawn mowers start with the obvious and work to the complex she still starts pretty much first pull so I suppose that a good sign?...just doest seem to rev high as it should I dont think or have the grunt she once did
but to be expected I guess
(was wondering if oldish fuel could factor into this too)

sooner or later things need maintenance...Thought regardless

Ive care for this as well as I know how to, regular
new air filters blades and plugs
(I know plugs can last like forever but they are cheap)

but real engine maintenance is out of my league but guess I am about to find out if I can learn..

Fuel seems to flow freely but I will clean & check those lines upon your advice
Thanks for the tips too Nr D appreciate your help

Pull the muffler off and look at the piston.

With a small screwdriver or similar you can poke the rings, then you can gauge their condition. If they wont move thats no good. If they spring but can be pushed a long way into the piston groove they are worn out.


Being a chinese made engine, anything is possible.

huum oddly seems I cant edit me other post..anyway

Well I checked lines all seems ok
Cleaned and blew out fuel filter in tank
(I was actually going to order one of them..forgot)

On said "mushroom" I check vacuum it seemed to be holing ok
(can I have my tongue back please)
but I may snip end or replace that line it may not be so airtight


I did notice thought (getting old blind and deaf)
that the primer appears to be not air tight so this may well be the problem... O ring and primer, but will do the rebuild

Foot Note:

I did just replace the whole she bang "carby and snorkel"
so I'll clean the snorkel...(suggestion on best method welcome)

Thanks again for you replies

Cheers

Thanks rodeobob will do

oh its china made? thought this was just before OS manufacture this one
but only just and I though they did them in India first off
but well if it was humm
cheers


EDIT
----------------------------------------------------
umm well I am no engine mechanic but this dont look good ..and your "not good" I think fits the bill
(no movement I could detect)
What little I know rings are suppose to be slightly above the cylinder
and yesss look at all that lovley carbonized Crud..



Well that was my darkest suspicion but I'll wait for your opinions...still I think this has entered "Project status"...
long term till I learn how...but if its a china build is it really worth it ?

Does have sentimental value, it was my Dads till he died

----------------------------------------

Well guess its part "B" find a replacement

Seems all the latest including those fitted with a B&S (sadly) from what I read dont have a long life expectancy so maybe I'll just pick the Prettiest one on the bench and call it "Mudgaurd" all shiny on top and $#^! underneath

(yeah was thinking Ebay but well its pot luck and if the newer ones dont have long life expectancy then you'd only be buying A sooner the later repair/replacement I guess

you guys Id trust but you are all way not near me Anyway time to learn)

Again thanks all

Well I am a dummy I was kinda looking at this the wrong way Joe
closer look at the photos cleared that up but I'll have to recheck
really
I suppose a compression test...
still I think they arn't healthy..humm anyway Thanks

Cheers mate

oh the zoom...well think I must have cleaned out the last of the zoom from the old Carby (original)
(done lest hours then the other fitted one, so I'll rebuild that when part get here)
cleaned snorkel etc

probably really pointless if it is the rings but rechecking I thing they move a little and spring a bit
still I have my doubts on them

Really more so for reference
but heres a couple of pictures one of the rings and the other of the back of the Cylinder
you might get better sense of depth on them


(that yellowing is torch light I think)

I think rings are the go but I just need to confirm it and if they are..well learning curve
now a question
I could probably manage rings but honing a bore well not tooled and wouldn't trust me
so I hate to do half baked jobs but what the chances of getting away with rings
if the bore is in not too bad shape I say it has some wear and tear just hopefully not too much

Anyway if its rings its a project for me as I said...over time

Again thanks All

Well The Carby Rebuild went OK it seems to be running smoother now

So Thank you Bruce & loven the Cap

I rebuilt the original shorter snorkel and put that back on
(I think it was the original not sure now)

Sadly as I was reassembling the other carby/snorkel the end cover split
anyway it probably needs a new primer and O ring
so I'll leave it for now

Still haven't as yet check compression but run it through some tallish grass it died off somewhat but recovered better then before...just got to find the compression tester...still... seems there life in the old girl yet so no biggie (yet anyway)

Thank you Mr Davis for the Kill Cut out info
its still a pain thought... had 3 attempts to get it right
I ended up using a multimeter to check continuity...the tricky part of that is, I guess in shorts a coil so you have coil Resistance when open
(I did have the schematic Diagram of the electrics but of course cant find it)

so I was reading 1R3(1.3 ohms) open and of course shorted
(when I got it right) near zero 0.2 ohms to be exact on my meter
(the way my meter works..it would probably be different for you depending on meter spec lead contact etc..just look for open higher closed lower near zero...measured at the bootie)

So alls good... ...well so far..( well till I found the post below)

Regardless, Thank you all for your Help much appreciated

A photo for prosperity
(bit dusty just finished testing it)



Yes so it needs a New Paint job...maybe
if I do managed to re ring it, more likely rebuild is the go
(cylinder piston for a redone one but I may attempt it my self..then again costs add up quickly.. bearings etc if you want to do it right
And being non Oz version (sadly ), not really worth it I guess so humm)

looking at this thread confirms my first suspicions, it looks to have had its day
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=32005

Seriously thought its a new POS mower I think..
I might see what the second hand place has
but well price..
curb side pick ups go quick here and a whole lot of new rubbish is there...like 1/2 later

oh well its still cutting grass atm ...

Anyway

Looking at those pictures it needs to pulled apart and honed and new rings fitted. You could probably save the piston.

The picture marked Cylinder, is that of the lower part of the piston, or is that actually inside the engine??



Now if thats what its like on the exhaust side, what is it like on the inlet side????
The piston only gets looking like that for one reason, its been run with no oil at some stage. The damage starts on the exhaust side and will get the inlet side last.


Like i said in the other post, they will run on stuff all compression.


From here on in i would say that you are just going to be making it worse.

Well Bob Thanks again, you confirmed my worse nightmare

what got me on this quest was it seem lower in revs and power was not so good at all plus the compression didn't feel right when changing the blades... usually you feel something

So thats why the other testing post to try and confirm it mate

Oddly doing the test there seem to be a far bit there but well its 11 plus years old and has done a few miles..only home use but still

Your comment on possibly running with "no oil" ...well for me it wouldn't have happen that I know of (possible yes)
but it was running the Victa/valvoline 50:1 oil
for many years..

reasons begin 2 of

1 the whipper snipper is a 50:1 mix
and NOT good if you feed it 25:1
2 to use the juice quicker so it isn't sitting for months

the other reason that could well contribute
was from the old man whom always run her dry..I guess the idea being that way you cant leave the fuel tap on
but then again he was the type to pull down and rebuild things so to him its wasn't such a big deal to do that

I must admit to a "method in that madness" cause at time if I did kill her I'd sometimes forget & leave the juice on & and smelly garage... so with potential boom I guess..
(smokers, and he was too) humm...

so two "possible ?" reasons it could possibly have ended up in that state without the aid of raw juice..lack of oil as such,
but thats still a possibility
it wasn't new when we got it
and on odd occasions has been borrowed....
(I have a habit of probably over feeding it oil as I'll add just a pinch a lot of the time if she's been sitting for a while)

thats open to comment... thought

anyway when I seen the other thread that pretty much told me for sure rebuild time

Now to learn how I guess...

that "Cylinder" photo is the back looking in from the muffler side
to the intake carby side your seeing
(so yes you are looking at the bore of the cylinder not the piston at all)



this is the full view of that cylinder photo
( EDIT..I wasn't expecting this to look as bad as it did considering I really do try and take care of it but well lack of knowledge dont help matters either...)



me too ....Thanks Bob for confirming that
well thats what I pretty much suspected was the case

Atm I am using the kill switch and 25:1 oil with Premium 95 juice as the local here only has 91 with Ethanol
(not sure on the other servo's but I refuse to use ethanol knowingly anyway)

so I am hoping that may prolong it a little
but yes true, lot less use or no use is best idea


Project status I guess ...rebuilt time

at lest the Carby seems happy now


Chears all & thank you again Bob

(maybe I killed it with unwitting kindness)

If you do not have, you can buy a 1L two stroke mixing bottle. I would suggest you use this for the line trimmer.

Or buy two and label them and use one for the trimmer and one for the mower.

Then the fuel in your can is ULP (or 95) and if it gets too old you can put it in a car. (not that you cant put premix in a car, done that before)


Run the mower on 25:1.
The whole Valvoline and 50:1 is ok for Victas thing is a marketing scam.
I would imagine that the tech people at Victa had the biggest bun fight over that with the marketing department.

The hardest thing with rebuilding the motor is getting the crank pin undone.
Plenty of info on the forum here.


Cheers, Bob.

EDIT started short but ended as a bit of a waffle Bob
hope it dont bore you to death mate


Yeah it seems so On that mate 50:1
from reading round here

Sadly twice now I done it by accident to that trimmer so I have shortened its life I guess...looking at cost of rebuilding it thought your half near to a knew one..

Anyway I have 5 tins and seems tins are not so popular..I dont know why? but guess maybe moisture and colder temps water in cans ?

I am going to go plastic and get rid of them over time

Ok I do have two cans with Victa for them I always used for the mix and that was the only cans ever I used for the mower and trimmer
one red and ones got orange plastic lid handle
so now have two separate mixes 25:1 red & 50:1 orange
The trimmer seems quite happy on the Vita Valvoline 50:1
(so did the victa I thought )

I think I'll look into the litre bottles thought Bob
as the less fuel the better for storage really
they dont get a heavy work out 2~4 hrs a month tops
for the mower


yeah for rebuild me well its more the honing I am worried about getting right...(as it seem precision here and how to achieve that
seems you can get a honing tool from supercheap for $20 odd
(have to pick joe's brain on that...there's 2 available)

not sure what really need to use to measure for that
and more so cost of

there is a guy the well trades for a price
a honed cylinder and piston/rings ..on ebay
pricey I suppose but well might be cheaper in the long run
guess you just got to hope he does good job..still
musing thoughts there really

I suppose there's "the wing and a prayer method"
hone lightly and hope you dont go out of tolerance
(I read a little of how to do it)

Actually I have a lot of questions on that
such as bearings etc and should I got with standard rings or what is best way to go about it..anyway I get there first before asking

Yeah that Crank pin is another
I know there is a special tool
but shhh $$$$ not cheap

oh one method on YT I seen was bash it with a hammer and screw driver..now I guess it works
but well I think you gotta leave big marks in it..
so not a big fan of that idea..but I know at times you do what you got to do too even if risky

I got a few Ideas for making something that might to the job
even one for ruining a pair of needle nose pliers
(really depends on how much force you go to use I suppose)

I am a fan of using the right tool for the job ..less change of damage and mostly makes life easier but for the cost $$
I am open to suggestions so I'll do some searching on that

As I said in due time I'll get to this
I'll probably post a list of dumb arse questions so hope no one will mind but I'll try to ferret out the answers first..

Thanks again Bob, Truly very much appreciated..:)

Cheers

Just use a hone from super cheap.
some wd40
Hone the least amount you can to get it to come up reasonable.
If theres still a few of the deeper marks left dont fret.

Yeah its a precision instrument, but its not, its pretty rural technology, but its robust and hardy and that leaves lots of room for error or forgiveness.


If the crank bearings are OK you do not need to remove the crank.


as for the crank pin. Im a bit under the pump but i will see if i can put up a post about that.

A light hone, a piston cleaned up with some wet/dry, new rings, it might not be 'in tolerance' but it will still do the job and do it vastly better than what it was before with a beat up bore and scratched rings.

Well it will become a project at this point
but will keep you all posted and with photos for reference
to hopefully help others... when I get to it that is


Smaller one I think that is so I'll get one when I get up there


Yeah "wing and prayer" but that was the thought
enough to make it better not brand new
and hope you dont get too far out cause of the damage


On
hoping so but as I said its done some hours over 11+ years..
but fingers crossed..

the less I have to do the better
(being somewhat a rank armature here)

no worries on the Bob,

its probably going to be a bit of time before I get to it anyway
(getting bits an pieces to do the job)
when or if you get time that would be lovely & many thanks
but if not thats cool too mate..appreciate the thought

I'll figure something out and research others ideas on it

A quick question.. just to be sure.. order standard size rings

Thanks for the tips too Bob

its late tired good night..actually more like morning

Cheers

The car size one.
Its a big enough bore.

You need the stones to have a lot of contact area with the bore so that they do not drop into the transfer ports and get ripped off.

So more than 50% of the stones length needs to be in contact with the bore so that the stone does not tip and drop into the transfer port.
The only way to do that is to have stones that are more than twice the length of the ports.

The hone i use has stones near on the length of the bore. With the block mounted in the vice tipped a little bore down, Heaps of WD40 and a cordless drill on the hone. Slow speed, up and down taking care not to go in too far so that the hone bottoms on the crankcase or crankshaft.
When you are done clean the bore out with a rag, then wipe out with a rag and soapy water then dry it. Put it together straight away smear 2 stroke oil on the piston and rings etc. Pour a bit of straight two stroke oil into the crankcase on the bearings.

Excellent Point Bob
(I could well have fallen into that trap)

I quite understand what you mean,
that could be "not a good look" to have happen!

they only carry two (well 3 ones for brakes)
a small ...no dimensions given at $ 20
(so its a mystery..atm )

and reason for that comment, I was reading the thread on Jono's Honda honing and so assumed that would be the right size
(but have to find and re read the post to be clear on what that said.. oh and I guess a victa 2 stroke bore and honda bore are different beasts being a 4 stroke )

the other they Carry is $60 dimensions are;
(EDIT it actually sounds like you might have this one Bob, length wise)

I wont post the link thought

4" sound like the length of stone so dont think that would be a problem for the ports oops

Just did a quick rough measurement of the cylinder section
that seems about the length of the bore ? 100mm 4" aprox
so the smaller "if its" 2+~3+ inches somewhere
would I guess be the go...well maybe

but I'll leave that open for comment, advice
just my thinking is 4" dont give you much room to get a cross hatch patten happening evenly

but hey I truly dont have a clue on honing so ..humm open to comment

thanks for the method instruction too
will do

I think the hone is suppose to achieve a 30 degree cross hatch look...from what I read so far too
(with probably the odd deeper scratch here and there I suppose, for me )

Anyway if the smaller is about 2/3 + of the bore length I guess thats a goer...but maybe 4" is a better option as less chance of uneven hone I guess too..
if you only got to pop out by say half inch each side...

sorry... rambling indecisive thoughts again Bob

Anyway to gather bits and pieces first is next step
...

Thanks again, Bob cheers

Note: to self "special Tools How to"
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=33821&gonew=1#UNREAD

Thanks again Bob your a legend

Well just lost me whole post

so heres the short version
As you all know I've been using the Victa Valvoline 50:1 oil..at 50:1 mix



Since the stated mixture is 25/1 for victa 2 strokes
and there been such a big discussion
on this oil "not to use at 50/1"
still it seems like a decent oil

My question is can you use this at a 25/1 ratio

200ml per 5 litre like the other oils?

is anyone using that mixture?..with this

is there such a think as "Too much oil"
if you do this with this formula?

--
the trimmer seem happy with it a 50:1 so it wont be wasted I suppose

but I'd like to use it at recommend mix of 25:1

but dont want to risk any damage to engine
or faster clogging of ports with crap etc..
from an overly rich mixture..

Anyway just want to know if its safe really...
(I really dont want a seized engine or something catastrophic to happen)

---
next Question

I guess this will be one more of personal preference

What is a recommended "Quality oil" for a victa 2 strokes
(that will be kindest to the engine for maximum life)

Penrite's a name I hear about..?


Thank you all


oh, if there is a thread on oils can someone please point me to it


----foot note---

there has been a bit of discussion in a couple of thread I found
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...ds=mineral+oil&Search=true#Post23308

and here he mentions using it but not sure if he used it much at all I think it was going to be his intention...anyway that bore looks a bit worse them mine


https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/u...ds=501+mixture&Search=true#Post31898

That oil is fine its Valvoline (know what I mean).I use to use it all the time.I just found it a little dearer,maybe because of the bottle.I use Castrol 2 stroke oil now.The only oil I haven't used,only as I have worked at a Caltex and was advised by a sales rep not to use,was 2 stroke outboard motor oil.Can't remember what he said now.I think it was something about it was thinner.I had also been told story's of people using it and ending up with dead motors.You can use that as a 25:1 as well just make sure you put enough in for the right amount of litres.

yeah its all I used but sadly at a 50:1 mix for the mower
(as stated..but seem thats a big can of worms )

since I started this thread thought I tired a 25:1 shell mix on 95
(seems our local uses ethanol in the 91 unleaded)
but it is still not well at all, so rings and hone it seems is the go (and if successful it will only get 25:1 mixtures)

I guess I just panic a bit cause of the boo boo I made and whack 25:1 in the trimmer (bad mistake)
(which was why I was using 50:1 in the first place, years ago)

So if doubling it up does no harm (200 mls per 5 Litres)
(just defeats some of the purpose, price)
I'll use it that way... with 95 if I cant get 91 no ethanol

yeah its a bit of a mine field oils and petrols at the moment
with additives etc

I had read something on that on outboard motors & 2t oil
but well no idea really on why..just wasn't a good idea
(seem thought the mix is 50:1 for outboards (or some) and if thinner again thats probably why dead engines...or badly stuffed ones I guess
I read something on some use an injection method for the oil so maybe thats why it needs to be thinner (or some are)..I dont know really just guessing))

I think too you got to take advertising with a little salt and see what you can find out as it seems some mention there wonderful 2 stroke use it everywhere
but as normie would sing "it Aint necessarily so!"


Anyway Blumbly thanks for the feedback on it..much appreciated

I want to do a bit of looking into it
on mineral and synthetics oils the pros and cons
long chains short chains ...sounds like fun but I am curious

from a few I read else where
it can get very opinionated

but I had to ask the question to know..how can you learn but from other experience & knowledge

Cheers mate