OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Restoring, Customising and Modifying Tech Talk Wipac Magister Condenser Discharge Ignition System

Hi to All, this is the first thread, posted anonymously, in reply to Blumbly's photos of his SB Model 35 rotary....It is the first mention here of the mysterious "Magister".

Hi,
The mower you have is in fact a Scott Bonnar 35,Model 201 series 2.The the second series of the first rotary mower made by SB.The 3 wires you have are from the coil,they are joined via 3 x screw fittings that run to the secondry coil."Magister"then on the to spark plug.You will need a secondry coil,to run this mower,as for a spare,Ive only ever seen one intact...And I own it,I can supply you a picture if you like.they did make a few of these in a three series run,but it seems very few survived.Ive been told many times that they would over heat often,making them pretty much a failure.BUT mine runs fine,although I dont mow long grass so Ive not really tested it under load.At a guess going of the few numbers ive obtained they maybee made around 20,000 or so.Anyways I love this model and im currently restoring her now.Only missing a catcher,but i doubt id ever see one.

The Scott Bonnar Model 35 Rotary is fitted with the company's own engine, their Model 201 which was first produced at the end of 1957. Later engines used the Wipac Magister magneto. The company was proud of this engine which was powerful and quite successful. It was used on the Supercut reel mower occasionally and was the standard engine on the 20 inch Model 43 [pictured] which was used on bowling greens, but is rarely seen today. I think the Model 35 was the last time this engine was used. I have found the Model 201 to be excellent and a first pull starter on Model 43s. I've attached a little information about the engine.
Regards,
Grant.
[email][/email]

Wow thanks for that willingworker that is some very useful information on the engine.That's great if you have any more info on theses or any other Scott Bonnar rotary's I would be more than happy to hear from you.Thanks again.

Hi Grant and Blumbly, thanks Grant for posting the pic...you must have done a re-print of your excellent booklet...I just checked page 38 and have the Model 40 and the 430 Diplomat pictured.

I spoke to Charlie in Mildura the other day and he said you dropped in....do you know the model of the antique SB he has in his shed?
You have filled in a lot of blanks for Jeffery (blumbly) he has been searching for info on the SB rotaries for ages to no avail....can you please post anything you have on them....it would be fantastic for our archives.
Grant, once again thanks mate.

yes I agree.So far this information is like gold,but the more I can find the more I will learn.

Hi Jeffery, yes mate, Grant is a wealth of information on all things Scott Bonnar....it will be great for our archives to have good new pics to save in the SB history forum.

I just hope he can help me with the information I need to get this old girl going again.It just frustrates me that it's so hard not find the information I need.If it was a Victa I would already know.I guess that's 1 reason why I like Scott Bonnar rotary's but it frustrates me as well.

I cant contribute with any info but ......Very Nice!

Would be better if I could get the parts I need.Would restore it then.

Hi Jeffery, I did a little research on the Wipac "Magister Magneto"....it was used on a few British engines; including stationary engines by John Deere. It may be worth contacting the Old Lawnmower Club in England and make some inquiries....I think Ty is a member....they may be able to supply the maggy for you.

Thanks deejay,but didn't you tell me that the engine was made in Adelaide? So wouldn't they be different to the ones from England?

Well I decided that even tough I don't have everything I need to start the restore,that I had better do something with the engine before it does seize up.So I took it apart to see what sort of damage was done.I haven't as yet pulled the crankcase apart,but I will soon.The bearing I think are buggered.I did find some rust in the bore down the crankcase side.
Here are some pictures.






I will put some more pictures up after I have finished pulling it apart.

I'm sure I will be able to work something out with the ignition.

This is the first post by Plymouthbel that is in reply to the photos of his SB Model 47....it also mentions the Magister.


Being a rare one I will put it in storage for now until I can find more detail on it. I do have a feeling that magester thing is around the house somewhere and my son took it off so will have a look for that over the weekend. Any suggestions as to where to head now. I am getting nothing on the net anywhere for this one.

Let's hope you find the Magister coil and it's in working order. You also need the 3-lead wire that goes to it from the rest of the magneto, which is under the flywheel.

Beyond reading the thread I referred you to earlier, and perhaps sending a PM to bluegmhtmonaro, I think persisting with the internet is the most practical solution I can suggest.

Thanks mate and will let you know if I find it.

Hi again Plymouthbel, if you do find the 'Magister', could you please take some pics of it, particularly the inside, so as we can see how it functions....One of our members Blumbly is looking for one of these units to complete his restoration....so any info would be invaluable.
Thanks mate,

The idea of taking a Magister apart really worries me, Deejay. It appears to be made of something close to WW2 era bakelite, which is chemically unstable: if it is bakelite, it is likely to fall to pieces if it is disturbed. Also, I have the impression from things Mal has said that there are more non-functional Magisters than functional ones. If Plymouthbel has one and it happens to be in working order, that might change if it is dismantled.

Gotta find it first guys

Is there a market in making reproductions? If so find me a non working one and the voltages and lets do it.

Grumpy, how do we know what it is made of, because other than Mal, none of us haven't seen one in the flesh, so to speak...it looks sturdy enough in this pic of Mals':

There is no information on this item available world-wide, and grumpy you know the time I have spent researching this mysterious little devil....they are very hard to find...until one becomes available (or can be fabricated) Jeffreys SB Model 35 resto is stalled.

Naturally, I do not suggest pulling it apart if it is going to damage the unit....but if it can, carefully, I, for one, would like to see inside it.

UPDATE: grumpy is correct; they are made of Bakelite and look very fragile....the internals are encapsulated in an epoxy resin...some black (so you cannot see inside)...some clear so you can at least see the components. They cannot be dismantled....Obviously a "repair by replacement" item, which may account for their rarity.

Hi again Plymouthbel, good thoughts there mate, but the trouble is we can't find one anywhere working or not working....there just not there to be had and I'm talking world wide.....anyone with one, would be attached to their restoration or perhaps stored in the shed...Mal's got 20 odd collectors looking for one for Jeffrey (blumbly) but, as yet, to no avail....
I don't know there would be a big market for them, apparently the were not that reliable....but it's a bit like the mascot on the radiator of a Rolls-Royce; just not the same if it is missing.

Hi all!
Great to see something different. Dad had one of these Scott Bonner engines in POP's old shed, I remember trying to start it but only got an occasional "bang / fluff" out of it. (probably just as well it was only held in the vice!!!) It went to land fill when he passed away.

Anyway I digress, has anyone checked out the National Library collection? I see they have Scott Bonner's from the 60's listed, i.e. brochures / catalogs (23pgs)Fly-mows etc.. Would be worth a look if someone lives close & photo copies some....

I do have a white Kirby tecumseh 2-Stroke air cowling with Scott Bonner on it, I can't help but wonder where / when & how that would fit in the Scott Bonner picture..

Hi All,

Just been having a look for some info on these coils. The only reference that I can find in publications is in a 1961 motorcycle magazine - there happens to be one for sale on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTOR-CYC...int-Special-Siba-Dynastart-/120826460728

May be worth a look.

Cheers,
Sir_Chook

Hi Sir Chook, yes mate, I have seen that publication during my research....but without knowing if was the same unit as fitted to the SB Model 35 and 47...we are at a loss. Unfortunately we can't see the pages they refer to.

Well I can't seem to stop drooling over it.If you do decide that seeing her off is what you want to do.I'll be here holding my hand up high.So high you'll see it every time you walk out your front and back door.

I've attached a photo of a WIPAC Magister magneto "Condenser Discharge Unit". This example has a clear plastic back and reveals perhaps a coil and a condenser.
Regards,
Grant.

Thanks for posting that Grant. It gives us quite a bit more to work with. There may be two capacitors in there, including a very small yellow one standing on its end in the upper right quadrant of the picture.

I think the next thing we need (other than a look at the alleged printed article in the vintage motorcycle magazine) is a circuit diagram for the full system. We know that three wires connect to the Magister unit, but we don't yet know where the ends of them go, and I at least haven't seen a picture of the magneto unit under the flywheel.

Hi Grant, mate you are a legend!! I've wanted to see what was inside one of these for ages....Now all we need is a circuit diagram to see how it works and the component values and voltages!

At least we now know that the brass strap on the front of the Magister (missing in your pic) may be some type of switch?...it seems to go to earth...maybe some early type of kill switch.

The following pics are of Jeffrey's Model 35 coil assembly....you can see the 3 wires from the magister.


I wish we could get our hands on a schematic.

That's another step at least, Deejay. Can we have a look under the cover of the points box?

Yes grumpy....my thoughts exactly....Hoping Jeffrey chimes in here and posts some pics.