OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Honda Engines Picked up a HR214...

Hi guys, i picked up a hr214 and have tried to get her going to no avail. Im not very clued up at all in regards to this mower and would love to start it up.

Im guessing the carby is the problem (and needs to be reconditioned) as a shot of fuel directly into the bore got her going.

Do we have a workshop manual for the hr214 in the workshop manual (i went through and could not find anything specifically though im not sure which manual i should be looking at)..

thanks!

I would imagine it is a GXV motor, it would be stamped on the side of the block somewhere. There appears to be a carb manual for it uploaded.

I scored a free HR194 honda and foudn the reason it was replaced was somoe had turned off the hidden little fuel tap ontop of the carby.

To start things off I would pull the carb off, take the bowl off the bottom and make sure the little jet that goes up the center is clean. Also ensure that the choke butterfly closes when in the choke position.

thanks Joe, your always helpful!

im going away on the weekend but when i come back that will be a priority (as is the hi arch resto i have going :P)

Okie dokie, i have pulled apart the motor and obviously whoever had it never drained the carby before storage... a greasy yellow film all over the carby bowl, carby parts etc.

I have managed to clean off as much as possible using elbow grease, a rough toothbrush and petrol and it actually has come up quite nicely!

I gave the mower a shot and it does work but the motor is struggling and i suspect that there is still a carby blockage in there somewhere.

Choke works well, idle works ok (does struggle) but full throttle is a no go (stays the same as idle).

I have followed the instructions on the carburetor check sheet (parts list and manuals) and have cleaned out the main nozzle, pilot screw, pilot air path and the main jet. I do not know how to access the main nozzle air path or any other paths!

Can anyone help?

Also, another diagnostic, when the fuel valve is shut off the engine performance seems to increase, the main throttle becomes somewhat more responsive (a short while after the fuel runs out, maybe 10 secs or so).

Hace you tried it without the air filter on?

yep, i should have mentioned that this was without the air filter on.

If it runs better soon after you turn off the fuel, it sounds like either the problem is in the governor, or it is running rich whenever the fuel is on. Is the choke opening completely? Does the float bowl overflow (flood) when you leave it standing, not running, with the fuel turned on?

If it doesn't flood, you might look for a mixture adjustment screw. If it has one - and only one - you could go through a simple adjustment procedure. Do this with the air cleaner installed, or you'll be wasting your time. First, find out the current adjustment setting: note where the mixture screw-slot is pointing, then gently turn the screw clockwise until it bottoms lightly, noting how far it rotates. Write this down somewhere. Then put the screw back where it was in the first place, start the engine, run it at a moderate above-idle speed, and turn the mixture screw clockwise slowly. If the engine speeds up, keep turning the screw until it reaches maximum speed and begins to slow down. Note the position of the screw. Then turn it anticlockwise until it begins to slow down. Set the screw halfway between the first position (lean limit) and the second position (rich limit). Make a new note of the screw position.

If it doesn't speed up when you start to turn the mixture screw clockwise in the first test, chances are the mixture is not the problem, or not the only problem. Tell us what happened, and we'll go from there.

Ok, the float bowl does not overflow, the choke is opening completely.

I have bought a brand new filter and spark plug and have installed them

There is one mixture adjustment screw but everything i do to it does not seem to affect idle performance, it make a minor change to the throttle performance.

oh, 1 thing i have forgot to mention, the air hose that leads from the engine block into the air manifold (the one that bypasses the filter), that hose is cut at an angle and when i found it and itseemed to be jammed (without anything holding it securely really) into a cavity just next to the governor arm. Is that how it is meant to be or is there a more sophisticated method of holding this hose in?

Now that I've belatedly looked at the manual, I notice that the main jet is not adjustable: only the idle mixture can be adjusted. You set the idle speed to 2,000 rpm with the engine warmed up (do not expect it to run slower than 2,000 rpm - it isn't supposed to, and it won't do it at all well. If you try to adjust it to run slower, you will probably foul up the whole tuning profile). To adjust the idle mixture, begin by setting the mixture screw at three turns anticlockwise from fully in (i.e. clockwise) - and be very gentle when you screw it all the way in, or you will ruin the mixture screw. Run the warm engine at idle and adjust the mixture screw until you achieve the highest possible idle speed. If it increases above 2,000 rpm, use the idle speed screw to slow it down to that speed before resuming adjustment of the idle mixture screw.

The air hose you mentioned is the crankcase breather. It connects the crankcase to a source of vacuum (the intake manifold). The end that pushes into the crankcase is supposed to be beveled, so there is nothing to worry about regarding that.

Have you checked the tappet clearances? They must be adjusted with the engine cold. Inlet should be .003-.005", and exhaust should be .005-.007".

Have you checked the quality of the spark? It should be blue, and it should spark evenly when you pull the starter cord.

i have never really checked the tappets but i will have a really good look at the service manual on the forum and do so. the spark plug is brand new and produces a nice consistent blue spark. I have also left the fuel tap on this morning and will check if the tank runs dry in the afternoon (just in case the carby is flooding and im not noticing it).

I will also pull the carby apart this afternoon and give it another cleanover with the carby cleaner. (i have this funny feeling that an air hole might still somehow be restricted that leads to the main jet).

Im guessing i should be able to unscrew the main jet from the carby body to visually inspect it? (it didnt budge last time). I will make sure also that i didnt accidentally enlarge it while cleaning it out (as i suspect i might have), this would cause an increase in fuel flow i guess?

Accessing the service manual (Workshop Manual 194, which also covers 214)is the best step you can take I think. Honda recommend blowing compressed air through the air passages as part of the cleaning process.

Any damage to the bore of the main jet is likely to have very unfortunate effects (enriching the mixture by an unknown, but potentially large, amount), and require getting another jet. My tradition in my carburetor "fixing" days was to solder up the bore of the brass jet and then enlarge it progressively with a set of jet drills, using a pin vice, but I only did that with old engines where there was no way to find out the correct jet size. In this case, if you've damaged the jet you should just buy another one, or get a used carburetor from a wrecked mower.

ill buy a new jet tomorrow and go from there..

ok, i went to the shop and they told me there were around 5 different sized jets for the model, i bought the smallest one and the mower is going flat out (definitely not rich)regardless of idle mixture screw or whether the setting is in idle or full throttle position. im guessing the jet is too small or that there is an air leak somewhere?

update, i can get the engine to slow down by pushing in the governor arm, so i guess there is no problem regarding the carby, do you guys think that the governor could be the issue? (i have set the governor arm according to the workshop manual, ie: pulled on arm and governor pitchbolt clockwise and locked it in)

A four stroke engine isn't likely to run at high speed with the governor set for low speed, unless the governor is misbehaving. It can speed up slightly due to an air leak (most two strokes can speed up quite a bit more because they usually run rich to start with) but it can't run at maximum speed with the governor (speed control lever) set for minimum.

When you loosen the pinchbolt and set the governor arm, be sure that the arm is sliding freely relative to the pivot shaft, and follow the directions in Item 10 of the service manual carefully. It sounds as if you may have achieved the opposite of what you intended, with that adjustment: you may have locked the governor on full throttle. Did you follow step 2 (rotate the governor shaft all the way) as well as step 1 (rotate the governor arm all the way)? If you did step 1 but not step 2, I think you'd get exactly what you got.

hmm, i was sure i did the right regarding the governorthing but i redid it again and now i have a you beaut mower! runs well (not to high or low) though i must admit the idle mixture screw does not do much at all...

Sounds as if you have a first-class mower on your hands. I've never played with one like it, but from reading the manual, I'm impressed (though of course being Honda, they made it way more complicated mechanically than seems really necessary). You've got the right mower, and you've got the manual for it - life should be good for years to come. Once you get more used to it, you'll probably find a sweet spot on that idle mixture adjustment. Remember, it has to be idling at 2,000 rpm before the adjustment will make much sense.

on that note, how do you measure the rpms in general? (my dad has one of those strobe things that when synced can determine rpms, but im a bit scared of lifting the mower while its running and measuring the spin on the blade plate).

what other way can this be done?

There are two generic ways to measure the speed. One is to use an ordinary automotive servicing tachometer with a plug-lead connection (unless it's a ride-on mower you'll need a 12 volt battery handy) and the other is to use a stroboscope. Many mowers - especially older Briggs engines - have a visible rotating part on top, so it's easy: you just put a bit of sticky tape on that temporarily, and you are good to go. If there is no rotating part on top it is very, very difficult to use a stroboscope safely. In theory you could remove all of the blades, put the four wheels on solid blocks or up on the bench, chock the wheels, start the engine, and point the stroboscope at the blade disk. I do not recommend that approach because if the mower moves - for example, when starting it - horrific injury could happen to someone even with the blades removed. Using a plug lead tachometer is the only sensible, professional way to do the job. And never, never lift a mower while it is running. Starting it while it is up on a bench is risky, but lifting a running mower is just insane, even with the blades removed.