OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums General Discussion Forum Show and Tell Deutscher H660 26" walk behind w/B&S Intek 10.5hp - needs TLC,now what?

Hi All,

I've been on a tricky 1 acre property for near 8yrs now. Nearly all the 4000sqm needs mowing, but there's a lot of trees, raised roots, decent slopes, kikuyu, Coffs harbour climate etc - haha so while I've maintained my health primarily using a 21" Honda HUT216 for most of those 8yrs in mid-Summer it can challenge you.

Hence many moons back @Norm & perhaps others had recommended a Deutscher - I'd considered but they rarely come up and the $6k+ new is a tad rick for me.

Snagged this one for $1200 though was a PITA to pickup from the boonies! Owner claimed largely unused for the past few years as he'd gotten a small tractor - ran well enough, cut ok with very blunt blades, SP seemed very good.

While these are reknowned as being tough as old boots, clearly needs a tad of TLC - so I'm looking to make it my project to have ready for assisting with SOME (not all) of my mowing next Summer.

Just seeking guidance on any tricks with these or stuff I should do?

In no particular order I've already flagged to attack:
- Change engine oil (might put an oil flush through it?)
- Change transmission gear oil (should I flush this at all? Or just run for a while till warmed up & then dump it? Any brand of 85W-140 better? I often use Penrite)
- Change sparkplug
- Change inline fuel filter
- Remove bowl on carb & give quick clean
- Replace airfilter (which looks partially broken to me? Yikes!)
- Remove engine cover & blow out debris etc.
- Grease/oil linkages, wheels etc
- Remove & sharpen blades (did come with brand new set of blades as well)
- Apply rust treatment & or repaint mower

PHOTOS: https://photos.app.goo.gl/bkVkKYPE6taoU3LG6


The belts show a little wear, usable but likely need to be replaced in due course - not overly familiar with how to approach these as I've avoided using any belt driven gear.

Also have read some cautionary tales about the kickback on the recoil start of these - not sure if it's worth doing the valve clearances? Likely never done.

Mower will be stored in watertight & weatherproof shed

Hi N1KKO,
Yes those H660's are a beast but a fantastic piece of kit. Blades can be turned over or just sharpen them they will last a very long time. Seems like you are going to cover most of the maintenance on it.
I assume it has a Briggs on it and they can be an absolute pig to start unless you are under 25 years of age. I have one here still that I have to set up with an electric start, I don't have a chance in hell of pull starting it

[quote=NormK]Hi N1KKO, Seems like you are going to cover most of the maintenance on it.[/quote]

Is there anything else you'd do? Do you think the valve clearance should be checked? I'm never sure how essential this is unless a mower is running particularly rough. I suspect it'll never have been done on this one (and to be honest my Honda HUT216 is certainly due for it as well).

If there's anything else you think I should hit or focus on I'd respect your opinion greatly? Do you think a full repaint is warranted or should I just slap some used sump oil on the underside + WD40 and keep dry in the shed?

[quote]I assume it has a Briggs on it and they can be an absolute pig to start unless you are under 25 years of age. I have one here still that I have to set up with an electric start, I don't have a chance in hell of pull starting it[/quote]
Yup, Intek 10.5hp - hmmmm well should be ok I'm a pretty hardy 49 - but as mentioned I hear they're a bit of a bugger. Will be interesting to see.

Any particular brands of gear oil (mineral or full synthetic?), additives or tricks of the trade you'd try and use?

Hi N1KKO, You can check the valves pretty easy with the OHV's. Any gear oil is fine, nothing hi-tec with these Deutschers

Not sure why but I'm having zero luck finding the manual on the B&S Intek 10.5hp engine. Tried the B&S site, but when I enter the 10 character code (which was tricky to get off the valve cover, as corroded but 90% sure it's correct) - gives me zero results, despite the fact that the site clearly recognises whats entered as it autofills it once I start popping it in:
https://www.briggsandstratton.com/eu/en_gb/support/manuals.html#

10 character code is 015902 0113 E1

There's also this sticker (see attached on the rear of the engine but I don't think thats relevant, though have attached anyway).

Anyone have any ideas where I can get the manual for the B&S engine from?

FWIW - spent all day cleaning the mower up and lubing up the many joints.

Still unsure how is best to handle the corrosion on the panels & levers etc - painting would clearly be best but will be major pita. Maybe should just hit with a rust coverter?

The blade belt is in ok condition - but the gearbox belt is very much worse for wear, lots of cracks on the interior of the belt - needs to be replaced, The Deutscher manual advises it's part H09.

I'm always somewhat shocked when I buy other folks gear 2nd hand at how badly they treat things....kind of blows my mind as it's not that hard to do basic maintenance.

Hi N1KKO
That is the way the world operates these days. As you know they still make the H660 and from memory they are about $5000 so if it was mine I would look after it

@NormK, yeah I don't understand it - get in arguments with clowns on Whirlpool forums who say they've changed their mower's oil twice in 20yrs, claim it runs great and on this flawed basis assert that anyone who does normal maintenance on their gear is naive. Go figure.

The HE660's RRP runs a tad under $6500 these days. So not cheap.

Any point trying to get a kevlar version of the drive belt (seems to be an A33)? Or just go with your bog standard rubber version?

Hi N1KKO,
I just get my belts from ODK, whatever it is they supply. Drive belt might be "A" section, but I think the cutter belt should be a "B" section, without going outside to check

Any ideas on how to get the engine manual would be great - can't find anything online. Very odd that B&S don't have a work around for this.

PS. Agh....found something in the end : https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1022074/Briggs-And-Stratton-210000-Power-Built-Intek.html - looks like the right engine.

Only able to find as the part lookup on the B&S site accepted the model number I entered, despite not allowing it inj the manual look up.
https://shop.briggsandstratton.com/pages/parts-lookup#/Briggs_%26_Stratton/215902-0113-E1/Cylinder%2c_Engine_Sump%2c_Operator%27s_Manual%2c_Warning_Label/2159020113E1/57050002/y

Ugh......spent HOURS cleaning and lubing the dirty old thing and went to start it this arvo, so that I could drain & replace the engine & gearbox oil. Did not even get close to starting it.

Think there's a major issue with the carb as when I pulled the sparkplug, thinking I'd flooded it and would dry it off - literally had petrol POUR out. Thats not good!

Very despressing - had to give up for the day, think something is out of place in the carb - had removed the bowl to clean out - the entire plastic section with the float attached to it had fallen off just leaving the brass section screwed up into the upper part, I'd slipped this back on and screwed the bowl back on - hoping it was all fine (had ensured the rubber seals were all in the right places) - but something is very off.

So you didn't see it running before you bought it?

[quote=NormK]So you didn't see it running before you bought it?[/quote]
No, I did. You have to give me a tiny bit of credit ;-)

As mentioned - I'm 99% certain I've either reassembled the carb with something not in the right place or maybe have broken a bit of the carb. I didn't want to do a complete clean of it, so as stated earlier took the bowl off, sprayed some carb cleaner on it, then took the fuel pipe off the side and shot a little compressed air in this hole to try and push out any crap that might have been in it.

The plastic section which has the float etc attached to it fell off, leaving just the brass jet screwed up into the top metal section. There were rubber seals all on this so I assumed it wasn't a big deal i/e I hadn't broken it, I placed it back in place - but it would fall off again, so I placed back on and assumed the fuel bowl KEPT it inplace when it was screwed back on as well.

Seems this isn't the case - am guessing I've either broken something - or the brass jet(?) needs to be unscrewed and thats meant to hold it in place.

100% my fault - as mentioned was a tad depressing as fuel all over the place and I was aching like crazy from doing all the other cleaning up of it - carbs & me are not a good pairing.

Will summon up the courage to take the engine cover off & unlink the carb later (taking photos of where all the connections go - learnt that one the hard way!).

So definitely runs - seen started from cold, no issues.

Sorry, but I wouldn't attempt to clean a carby without removing it, they need to be on the bench so you can strip it down and put it back together and ensure everything is working properly

Yes, I'll try and find the time this week to remove it and see if I've done any damage to it or if I can somehow get it back on properly configured. Silly mistake by me, was kicking myself for it as was quite backbreaking in the humidity here cleaning this thing up.

Hi N1KKO,
I will keep my fingers crossed for you, I just hope that the compressed air has not blown something out, otherwise you could be looking for a new carby.

Hi N1KKO,

A new Carby isn't too much on Amazon.


Cheers
Max.

Much thanks Max, just been ill for a week - hope to see how much damage I might of done this weekend.

Appreciate your assistance

OK....drum roll please.

This forum has been terrific to me - so hopefully I've lived up to the expectations of the many members who've helping in my threads and also in others where I've just utilised their pre-posted knowledge.

The photo limits on the attachment manager mean it's easier (for all) to show the transformation via the below:

BEFORE pix - https://photos.app.goo.gl/bkVkKYPE6taoU3LG6

AFTER pix - https://photos.app.goo.gl/zkGyfSebvBXiks388

Sorry 'insert link' not working properly for me - have to copy and paste the above links to see them.

Alas my phone's camera stinks, but you get the idea. In no particular order here's what I did to it:
- Flushed engine oil, replaced engine oil
- Replaced air filter & prefilter
- Replaced sparkplug & gapped
- Flushed gearbox & replaced fluid
- Replaced SP drive belt with kevlar belt
- Lubed all moving parts, linkages
- Regreased cutting deck (via hole)
- Regreased kingpins
- New cutting blades, bolts, nuts
- Removed engine faring/cover, blew out and cleaned all built up debris etc
- Removed entire carb assembly, cleaned and replaced gaskets
- Fuel treatment put through it and allowed to sit in carb for a few days
- Installed inline fuel filter
- Flushed fuel tank to remove old debris.
- Removed exhaust box, cleaned, repainted with high temp silver paint (after treating mild corrosion) - applied high temp grease when replacing bolts.
- Repainted valve cover (? - on front the OHV) - repainted with high temp silver paint (after treating mild corrosion)
- Cleaned entire deck thoroughly, degreasing and using steel wire abrasion disks etc
- 3 coats of White Knight Epoxy Enamel on deck, 2 on rest of painted surfaces on mower
- 2 further coats of Rustoleum Brunswick Green Enamel over this
- 2 coats of a general auto sealant ovr all painted surfaces
- clear coat acrylic over the stickers (just to shine them up a tad)
- clear coat acrylic over the engine faring/cover (tried a plastic treatment but it looked dull - this shone it up nicely)
- Ordered kevlar cutting deck replacement belt (though current one ok).

LOL over the top a tad? Was reminding myself today I'm going to use it in a day or so and will no doubt knock or smack it up somewhere. I figure if I'd paid myself $20/hr I'd likely have been better off going and getting a new HE660 for ~$6500 delivered. But hey why do that when you can be a smug bugger with a slightly vintage one.

Anyway again much thanks to all the responders and folks who in general make these the BEST Aussie outdoor equipment forums, it's invaluable to folks trying to maintain their gear well. Has beena good project to help me keep my mind of possible serious health issues, which has been about all I can do on that front.

Cheers,

Nick

Well done Nick that is a credit to you, I have a couple here if you feel you need to do a bit more restoration work, also a Y560 which is just a baby compared to the 660's

[quote=NormK]Well done Nick that is a credit to you, I have a couple here if you feel you need to do a bit more restoration work, also a Y560 which is just a baby compared to the 660's[/quote]

A kind offer Norm, but I will politely decline if it's all the same. I have a personal tendency to overdo things and there's been enough elbow grease into this one to sink a small ship - was polishing it this morning and hearing a voice in my head saying,"You're mowing with it tomorrow you moron!"

Go figure.

Surprisingly nimble bugger, nice centre of gravity so looking forward to seeing how it goes after ~9yrs of mowing the acre of sloping, tree filled kikuyu here in humid, rainy Coffs Harbour with essentially a 21" utility mower. I am hopful this will do around 60% of it - the tougher bits - which are slopey. The rest I'll be happy to do with the HUT216, which is a cracker now I've modded the chassis up to 'rural grade' - she'll get some aesthetic TLC on the chassis this winter.

Thanks for your kind words, did want to do a good job for the Forum - you and others carry this place and is only possible due to you.

Yes Impressive work! Nick, if this mower was mine I'd be thinking now it looks too new to get dirty I'd better buy another Deutscher
to cut the grass.

They are one tough rooster of a mower and were advertised well.

The Deutscher HE660 mower is a world class self-propelled walk behind mower. It has been engineered to give continuous service in the most rugged of conditions, whilst retaining the ability to give a smooth finish to parks and gardens. With lockable front castor wheels and large tractor tread grip tyres on the rear, it allows for use in all types of terrain. This mower is the regular choice for many councils, shires, prison farms and mowing contractors throughout the country. The mowers are exported to a number of countries, including Papua New Guinea, South Africa, Kenya, New Zealand and other countries where rugged conditions require large, tough self-propelled mowers. Its design is deliberately rugged for long lasting reliability and safety of use. This mower is made from high quality materials and parts.

I see the limited slip differential is no longer available as an option for this mower-

After many years of offering the large 66cm (26”) side discharge mower with the option of a limited slip differential, due to the closure of their componentry supplier, they are no longer able to supply this option.


Cheers
Max.

Much thanks Max.

Yes, after a single use I reckon she'll have lost a tad of the lustre, doing under the deck etc even though we don't have a lot of rocks etc you know it's coming off soon enough - but I figure it'll be easy enough to top up each 'offseason' - and if nothing else she does look pretty darn close to new and I know mechanically I've got her back on her A-game. Just need to run for the first time with the new drive belt to see if I have the tension right, the new kevlar being a tad tighter, which I've tried to account for by backing off already.

Much thanks to you as well - as your posts on here are always terrific and a regular source of knowledge for a rural chap like myself trying to keep all the gear running well. :-)

OK first REAL use with it done.

Nice learning curve as I've a bugger of a property to mow and suffice to say it's very different to handle from a 21" utility mower.

QUESTION: I found that the lowest cut height level was barely suitable, don't mind staying at that - BUT the surrounding guard/deck is at this height a tad low i.e I'd like to make the blade's effective height 5mm or so LOWER, so I can cut at perhaps the 2nd lowest level & have same effective cut height. The deck was gouging bits of lawn out all over the place.

Would the best solution to this be fabricating a 'spacer' from some mild steel to place in between the blade carrier & the 'boss'/flange, which the 3 bolts attach into?

I would need to use 3 longer bolts to ensure the same effective grip/hold is made. But if there's a better way to do it I'm open to it.

Other thoughts:
- she's a BIG girl, 120kg - which when you're ~65kg like me is a very solid workout for upper body on the turns (which I have a lot)
- started out rough but got much better working the grears, flicking into N for big reverse turns and working the clutch on turns.
- have to completely rethink how I cut the lawn as she's a straight line machine, turning a lot is a PITA
- never expected to do anywhere near all of it with it, so best to fly around in H and then come back to tidy up with the utility mower plater on the bits too close to obstacles or that I'd have had to 3 pt turn to cut
- the engine & cutter powers through stuff - hardly revved it and did it all super easy
- washed under and hit with the blower, still looks pretty darn good
- need to wear gloves next time, blisters on the hands from muscling the big bertha through the turns
- can see why it'd be terrific on rough stuff, very strong machine.
- I am pretty savvy at cutting, to get better access I did with the chute guard off (which I get isn't for everyone, each to their own) PPE'd up with sunglasses and steel caps, it also has very good clearance from your feet so really not an issue at all, I've had the chute off on my HUT216 since day 1 - get much better clipping throw from it.

Hi Nick,
In hindsight you might have been better off with a smaller machine like the Y560 , they are only half the size with a 22 inch cut which for a 65kg person much easier to throw around.
I haven't looked at lowering the blades but a spacer would be the way to go. Are you looking to lower it 5mm or 50mm, I'm guessing 50mm as 5mm would make no difference to the skirts dragging on the ground

Hi Nick and Norm

A spacer sounds like the easiest path to lower the blade plate .

The tighter turns are a bit of a workout with a heavier mower.

Yes I've also got a a bugger of a property to mow on a slope but the good
thing about the quad bike mower is you can still cut the grass on a hot day
and it's especially easy to use when a lot of turning is involved.

Cheers
Max

[quote=NormK]Hi Nick,
In hindsight you might have been better off with a smaller machine like the Y560 , they are only half the size with a 22 inch cut which for a 65kg person much easier to throw around.
I haven't looked at lowering the blades but a spacer would be the way to go. Are you looking to lower it 5mm or 50mm, I'm guessing 50mm as 5mm would make no difference to the skirts dragging on the ground[/quote]

HI Norm,

Thank you as always for your reply.

Umm I'll have to do some measuring down in the shed to see what the offset between the blades and skirt bottom is. I would estimate anything from 10-20mm would likely do whats required. I assume mild steel would be essentially the only option.

Oh I just realised that the flange that holds the blade carrier on might be not so easy to get a spacer working on. The flange has 3 bolt holes, all abot 10mm - bu then there's also a central 'hub' which rather than being a bolt hold is just a ~30mm diameter raised round section thats ~5mm in height, this slides into the blade carrier. I forgot about that little feature until now, which makes a spacer a tad more complex.

Yes, look it's possible the Y560 will be shown to be the better choice, I considered them but hey if I need to I'll swap over in some way.


[quote=maxwestern]
The tighter turns are a bit of a workout with a heavier mower.
[/quote]

Yes, I remember part way through thinking "Bloody hell why am I so tired, this is meant to be easier" and it was - as I didn't need to push but it was like wrestling a sheep around every 180 degree turn. But like I said was the first use and I am loathe to rush to conclusions as I know it got a lot better when I became aware of it's nuances etc.

Hi Nick,
Yes that nut on the bottom of the spindle is the same problem I have with getting blade carriers made for the Victa 24's, I can get around it but it does present a challenge
How is your upper body feeling today, they sure are a workout when you have to muscle them around

[quote=NormK]Hi Nick,
Yes that nut on the bottom of the spindle is the same problem I have with getting blade carriers made for the Victa 24's, I can get around it but it does present a challenge
How is your upper body feeling today, they sure are a workout when you have to muscle them around[/quote]

Hi Norm,

Ah yes the Victa 24's, the 'apple of your eye' - I recall many a moon ago when I told of the challenges here on this property you advised me to hunt one down. In hindsight I kind of wish I'd given one a shot, if only out of curiousity - but anyway.

So whats the method you'd apply in getting around that - if one were to add a spacer in the 10-20mm ballpark?

Obviously that central 'hub/nut' would do a LOT of the holding on of the blade carrier, which on the H660 is darn hefty, reliance completely on 3 bolts might be not what the engineers wanted but likely still feasible though I'm not the best on the physics calcs.

Ah the upper body today is perfectly fine, though I have pretty nasty blisters on both hands as those hard rubber grips aren't the best - so made a mental note to glove up next time or I'll remove them completely and replace with some 'tennis racquet' wrap, which is my preferred hand grip material of choice on mowers etc rather than foam, rubber etc.

Again yeah I found the technique in the turns and figuring out whats worth cutting and what to leave to hit with the utility later (as I did) key - at the end of a straight run to turn, flick over to N, push up front wheels and pirouette on the rear ones, flick back into H and head back the other way. Again its a pretty nimble beast for 120kg, well balanced - so I'll be a lot better next time.

Hi Nick,
It is quite complex to get around the spindle nut problem and the only way I could do it is to make up a ring the depth required to go over the outside of the boss and then weld a disc to the ring and then bolt through the disc. Like everything it can be done, just takes a lot of work. If you get really stuck I can look at it for you while I have a couple of those unit still here

[quote=NormK]Hi Nick,
It is quite complex to get around the spindle nut problem and the only way I could do it is to make up a ring the depth required to go over the outside of the boss and then weld a disc to the ring and then bolt through the disc. Like everything it can be done, just takes a lot of work. If you get really stuck I can look at it for you while I have a couple of those unit still here[/quote]


Hi Norm,

Ah yes, that sounds like what I was envisaging. Hmmm that 'ring' around the boss is the tricky bit, as putting a hole that size in a piece of steel isn't something easy to do. How have you approached that in the past? I have a bunch of cobalt drills bits and I suppose you could do a buch of smaller holes and then grind these out to get the nice hole. Or perhaps easier just take to a metal shop in town and ask them to do.......likely the better option.

Oh no thats ok - I think I owe it to try and few more mows as is before modding, Mr Deutscher deserves a tad more confidence. But thank you for the suggestion - I think your approach would be the one to use IF I was to mod.

Thanks again, Nick

PS. Norm, on behalf of all H660 owners you can't be selling them off this cheap - bump it up a lil more and show Mrs Norm a good time out at the club. $1400 with you having given it the full Norm treatment etc is way too slim, thats easily $2,000 worth and even that would be a good price compared to new & current selling price for others.
https://www.gumtree.com.au/web/listing/lawn-mowers/1330162515

Couldn't you just let that sheep keep the grass down?
:grin:

Danny

[quote=Dandare]Couldn't you just let that sheep keep the grass down?
:grin:

Danny[/quote]
If you mean the animal peeking in one of the pix - well I have to take you as a non rural lad - as firstly it's a cow. But thats not so much of a problem - alas it's the neighbours on their holding. But I've certainly considered getting different animals in - thing each each comes with their own head aches, much like mowers I suppose - but you know what the mower will cut, with animals they can be rather picky in what and where they eat. :-)

If you just want to drop the cutting height a little then I would go for some stepped blades.


Cheers
Max.

Goats are good because they eat anything but they can be problematic. Funny story about goats, my mate bought a couple of them when he had a very steep property in Pakenham. He let them into the paddock which was next to the strip of land under the transmission towers. The goats walked over to the fence and jumped straight over it, then they headed up the hill, never to be seen again. He found out later that they were some sort of jumping goat and the standard fences were no problem to them. He didn't bother with goats again

I was thinking of that sheep you were wrestling with Nick.

Danny

[quote=maxwestern]If you just want to drop the cutting height a little then I would go for some stepped blades.
Cheers
Max.[/quote]

Hi Max,

I love the path of least resistance approach - I mean look if the H660 is to be feasible as a lawn cutter I'm going to have to get it to cut around 10mm lower, as whatever the effective cut height is she's just too high for the kikuyu. Now I pride myself on NOT being one of those very common Aussies who scalps his lawn in the hope it'll mean more time in between cutting - as kikuyu hates that and also it allows weeds to thrive.

But I'm looking at the lawn I did the day before yesterday and it's already needing a cut in another 2 days or so! Thats the summer joy here.

Any model blades in particular you think might be suitable on the H660? I suppose I can do the leg work just as easily looking for same effective length (factoring in bolt hole position) etc.

The Deutscher blades are so tough they don't wear much and you can just turn them over and use the other side. At this rate you are going to end up very fit

Hi Nick and Norm

I don't have a Deutscher HE660 here to measure blade length and bolt size but there are a few different lengths of Honda stepped blades available so I would look at Honda blades first.

There are probably some stepped blades here I can list the sizes but it would be easier
if I knew what length to look for.

If you want tougher blades then look at a slasher blade.

https://queenslandtractorspares.com.au/product/gessner-156-and-216-stepped-down-slasher-blade/

Cheers
Max.

I will go and measure them Max

[quote=NormK]The Deutscher blades are so tough they don't wear much and you can just turn them over and use the other side. At this rate you are going to end up very fit[/quote]

haha who says I'm not already? ;-) Yes, I've a spare set of new ones too

These are the blades it's currently utilising, which are the official size:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/204339677610

[quote=NormK]I will go and measure them Max[/quote]
Agh! I don't want Norm out having to measure such things, let me shoot down to the shed and come up with some numbers. Uno momento.

All good Too hard to get a blade off without going to a lot of trouble by I was able to measure the overall length which is 140mm

[quote=NormK]All good Too hard to get a blade off without going to a lot of trouble by I was able to measure the overall length which is 140mm[/quote]

Mr Norm,

Yeah I don't want trouble for you guys.

I was on the way up with the measurements myself
Width: 50mm
Total Length: 140mm
Centre of hole to end length: 115mm
Hole diameter: 16mm

Which lines up with the more detailed info on the GA Spares website for the HD blades, which is what I have:
https://www.gaspares.com.au/products/BLS326H?q=h660&product_code=BLS326H&per_page=&product_page=&search%5Bcategory_url%5D=

Ok quick search on GA Spares by stepped blades, the Honda's are a tad long, but something like this might be the best idea - as essentially it's intended for the H660 and also has fluting which is handy for clearing the deck and getting a nice looking lawn:
https://www.gaspares.com.au/products/BLS6394?q=stepped&product_code=BLS6394&per_page=24&product_page=5&search%5Bcategory_url%5D=%2F_product_types%2Fblades

Not sure of the effective step on it - I would imagine 5mm maximum?

Hmmm buggers to find, they'd also be the non-HD blades - so is the few mm in step worth the effort & lesser quality blades? Not sold on that.

I might have to give it a good thought as there's a significant chance that the H660, while a great machine just isn't a good fit for my needs here as she's too much of a cumbersome, hefty bugger. If it can't cut 10-20mm lower, she's also almost more of a pain than assistance - as yeah the SP is nice but I'm mowing a few days earlier due to it vs the utility & when it's a 5 day or so turnaround in peak Summer thats pretty significant.

Worst case I'll have to flog it on FB or Gumtree, but I can't say I'll be selling for as nice an offer as Norm does on his ones, ;-)

Have long thought that perhaps the hydrostatic SP on the Honda HRX217 might be a good match for the sloping terrain - but might chat about that in another thread.

Ok thanks for the specs Norm and Nick,

The Honda blades here are roughly the same length at 143 mm but the stepped part is only 3 mm so not worth the effort to fit.

When I look up the Deutscher mower H660 there are already stepped blades available ,I don't know the measurement of the step
you'd have to ask a seller.When I googled it I got 20 to 25 mm step?

Some other stepped blades I saw were for a 28 Cox Orion Stockman Ride on Mowers SKIT33 but I haven't compared the size.

Cheers
Max.

H660
Cox Orion Stockman Ride on Mower

[quote=maxwestern]Ok thanks for the specs Norm and Nick,

The Honda blades here are roughly the same length at 143 mm but the stepped part is only 3 mm so not worth the effort to fit.

When I look up the Deutscher mower H660 there are already stepped blades available ,I don't know the measurement of the step
you'd have to ask a seller.When I googled it I got 20 to 25 mm step?

Some other stepped blades I saw were for a 28 Cox Orion Stockman Ride on Mowers SKIT33 but I haven't compared the size.

Cheers
Max.[/quote]

Hi Max,

Ah you guys are very good at assisting - but I think we're finding the same things:

- concur the Honda's are too long and very little stepping - so not viable

- the stepped H660 blades are BLS6394, I'd linked earlier - as mentioned my reservation with these ws really only the stepping, but yes I could ask but I can't see anywhere much that has them in stock, even GA Spares seem out but I will email them so I can eliminate them and ascertain the effective stepping.

- the Cox Orion Skit33 blades are too long (150mm from hole to tip) and 13mm hole.

But much thanks for the recomendations

PS. Found a seller with them in stock: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/201457315689

Have messaged them & also GA Spares asking the size of the stepping and also the thickness of them. Will post up to assist others.

Hi Nick,


I did see some Deutscher blades here for around $18.

https://tomssmallengines.com.au/products/deutscher-4-9-16-swing-back-blade-set-skin-packed-for-display

The Cox Orion blades would work ,there are some on ODK that the image shows the blade has a long
fluted side so it could easily be cut down to the correct length and the smaller bolt hole is easily drilled or
ported out with a small porting stone,these blades list the step at 10 mm.

That's if the images are correct as it always pays to ask first before buying but even if you shortened the
blades and lost the flute they will still work on a slasher mower.

Cheers
Max.

[quote=maxwestern]Hi Nick,


I did see some Deutscher blades here for around $18.

https://tomssmallengines.com.au/products/deutscher-4-9-16-swing-back-blade-set-skin-packed-for-display

The Cox Orion blades would work ,there are some on ODK that the image shows the blade has a long
fluted side so it could easily be cut down to the correct length and the smaller bolt hole is easily drilled or
ported out with a small porting stone,these blades list the step at 10 mm.

That's if the images are correct as it always pays to ask first before buying but even if you shortened the
blades and lost the flute they will still work on a slasher mower.

Cheers
Max.[/quote]

Hi Max,

I put those ones in my cart earlier yesterday.....as yes they were the cheapest delivered and in stock, a good combo - waiting for GA Spares to reply with info on the stepping. The Ebay seller I also asked said,"All the info we have is in the listing" - lol so the good old days of checking your stock for a customer is long gone.

Yes, I did consider that with the Orion blades, but am hesitant to go cutting down blades etc unless theres no other option - the bolt hole being 13mm is also an issue as I don't have a 16mm cobalt bit, but I appreciate the suggestion.

Thanks again for the trouble and effort - its a credit to you and appreciated.

Got the reply from GA Spares about those blades, looks like they're a non-starter:

"it is only a slight step, its around 2-3mm."

So not viable at all for that type of tiny difference. So really it's either something like those Cox blades, which still will need the bolt hold enlarged and to but cut down in length. Or make some type of a spacer ring. Or perhaps just concede defeat with the H660 as a whole and move on from it to a smaller SP option for the sloping areas & in the hottest part of Summer.

Not sure of the best option at present. Bugger.

Hi Nick,
Do you have a Dremmel you can use to open the holes up, that is what I would be looking at, can't give up now after all that work you put into it

G'day Nick

A small stone in a drill also works but I've also used Sutton High Speed Steel drill bits to drill broken drills,broken easy outs,
high tensile bolts ,spring steel ,stainless ,hardened steel axles, mower blades, etc, Once I couldn't drill a truck clutch fork
but it didn't have a hole to start with so I took it to a shop to drill which they didn't charge me for.

You just have to keep sharpening the drills.

I did see some other blades but would require more work as both ends would need cutting and will need a new hole drilled,they were
1/4 inch thick.

The step in these blades is 22 mm but you really need to see them to know if they can be modified as they are longer
https://queenslandtractorspares.com.au/product/gessner-156-and-216-stepped-down-slasher-blade/

Cheers
Max.

Thanks Max, yes I have a few of those types of stone sets, have used them before one some projects.

Yeah I'll have to look it all over - don't mind sinking more $$$ into it - but if I feel it's going to be still a big landbarge thats not overly handy I'll be batter off selling while it's nice and pretty and grabbing a lesser SP option (alas there's very few things on the market I'd really feel worth muster....perhaps a Honda HRX217 that has a hydrostatic SP system thats a tad more user friendly that the shaft driven HRU, or the Victa Mulchmaster 560, which I think they put a much better quality transmission in).

But don't want to get ahead of myself, so we'll see - thanks heaps for your assistance.

Hi Nick,
Before you head off in another direction and are thinking of getting something else, I would look for a DeutscherY22 or 560, they are about half the size of the 660, they are a bit of a monster, the 22 is a baby beside them, much easier to use

Hi Nick and Norm,

The problem for me with using a Y22 is that it's only 1 inch bigger than a SuperSwift Big Bob , I guess at this stage if you can
get the blades lower it's worth trying out the mower a few more times to see if you get used to cutting the grass with the H660 or decide that is
too difficult and go for something else.


I've heard Honda had problems with the Automatic Compression release on Honda HRX217 with the hydrostatic SP mowers and have heard they fixed the problem on later models.The fixed mowers had a green dot on the cardboard box.


I found some stepped blades here ,9mm step , 172mm length , 3mm thick but I don't remember what mower I took them off.

I'd prefer a side throw when cutting a lot of grass as it's easier than constantly stopping to empty a catcher.

I tried lots of self drive mowers here and ride on mowers and push mowers and the $50. quad bike with a tow mower
was the easiest on a hill.

There were a lot of different blades here https://www.jakmax.com.au/products/lawnmower/swingbackblades


Cheers
Max.

Max,
The thing with the Y22 is it has a decent gearbox in it, all the other self propelled have those dicky little fragile gearboxes in them

Yes there isn't a lot of mowers with a tough driveline like Deutscher mowers.

I used an old Rover 21 inch Norm for years it was super reliable it was the later red one and I put a Quantum motor on it ,then I sold it
as I stopped using it.

An old mower shop told me a lot of contractors used them when new as they lasted the longest when used every day compared
to Victa and Honda.

I think there was a Big Bob 21 inch with a similar drive setup but I've only seen a couple of them .

[quote=NormK]Max,
The thing with the Y22 is it has a decent gearbox in it, all the other self propelled have those dicky little fragile gearboxes in them[/quote]

Yes, the Y22's are well just a smaller H660/HE660 - so little tanks to be sure. Still bloody hefty things, IIRC around 80kg - but with that does come a lot of benefits.

Well the thing is and I am goign to word this carefully as I know I'm speaking with THE big boys of info on this site - but my understanding is there's perhaps a couple of SP mowers that are decently robust in their transmissions. but thats a tricky need to thread.

I've actually just written to Victas asking them to clarify the model of gearbox they have on their Mulchmaster 560, as I thought I'd read it'd been upgraded - as it initially was very looked forward to by Lawn Contractors (which I am NOT, but there's a few forums that they have which I've found invaluable for getting info and tricks on mowers - as well it's their stock and trade)...but while they'd initially hope it'd have been essentially a modernised and 4 stroke powered Mulchmaster 550 they had gearbox issues with them.

So tryign to clarify that one.

Same with the Honda HRX217, a lot of contractors seemed to like using it instead of the HRU216 - as having the hydrostatic gearbox this was seen as much more user friendly for use than the shaft driven 3 speed. Also had the nexite (Plastic deck) but crappier engine and bar blade rather than swingbacks - though easy work around to the latter.[quote=maxwestern]Yes there isn't a lot of mowers with a tough driveline like Deutscher mowers.

[quote]I used an old Rover 21 inch Norm for years it was super reliable it was the later red one and I put a Quantum motor on it ,then I sold it
as I stopped using it.

An old mower shop told me a lot of contractors used them when new as they lasted the longest when used every day compared
to Victa and Honda.[/quote]

I actually used something very similar back in the 1980's as a kid - side throw Rover with that drive setup, B&S engine on it - was a terrific mower. yeah hard to find things made like they used to , lol that goes for Max & Norm as well I'd imagine. ;-)

Give them credit Victa replied pretty quickly (a few hours) stated they use the GT-MC600 gearbox in the Mulchmaster 560, and they've used the same gearbox in it since 2016.
https://generaltransmissions.com/en/products/mc-600-602/

Pretty ordinary gearbox, I must have mixed Victa up with the Maspot Contractor:
https://masport.com.au/outdoor-garden-products/petrol-lawnmowers/contractor-/contractor-st-s21-3-n1-sp-k

I think it was masport who released and had to upgrade the Gearbox after issues. Seems they've used a superior gearbox to Victa, stating they use a 3 speed pro range gearbox from GT - Victa's one is from the residential range.
https://generaltransmissions.com/en/product_category/gas-commercial/

Both are less robust than Deutscher but thats a very high standard.

Ok - going offtopic here, badly but hey in a small forum thats not modded to oblivion - I suppose we can do that. I can definitely rule out any future consideration of the the Masport, Victa or Honda HRX217. All seem to have major issues.

Is funny looking back at big brand SP mowers reminds me whiy I decided it was MUCH EASIER to push a 21" utility for the last 9yrs - rather than constantly repairing their overpriced and under spec'd junk.

Padding my post count here, I was just looking over the specs for the current Deutscher XF560, which carries a somewhat eyewatering $5000 pricetag (how is it Deutscher couldn't at that price spring for a better engine than the relatively vanilla B&S 850 or GCV190 Honda????? Seems a tad miserly).

Anyway noticed it's cut height is a low of 22mm.

Made me wonder what the H660 is rates and and oddly it claims 10mm! Which I'm not seeing in practice at all - will go measure on the floor of the garage but well off this - no idea why as the tyres are pumped up all to spec (20psi) etc.

A tad odd.

PS. Been meaning to ask this - when using the H660, I found the Low Speed terribly slow, whereas the Fast was a tad nippy, especially round obstacles (lots of Citrus trees) - is 'riding' the clutch(having in gear but applying varying levels of squeeze to the handle so the belt is pushed in/out a certain amount) in this style of gearbox an absolute no-no or vaguely acceptable?

I'd have thought it ok as the gears are engaged constantly, only the belt's tightness is altered.

Ok on a flat concrete surface the tips of the cutting blades measured MIN: 55mm MAX: 115mm - so a range of 60mm of travel/varience.

This is a tad odd as the manual's specs state for cutting position heights MIN: 10mm MAX: 88mm - a range of 78mm - thats a big difference.

The cutting height being so different in reality is odd too - I mean 10mm is really scalping stuff - which it just doesn't do. Now my model has the tractor style high grip tyres, and I thought perhaps this might be a factor vs the lower profile ones. But still seems very odd and surely the range of overall movement in cutting height would be near identical, not nearly 25% less than stated.

Any ideas on why this might be?

As a side note in theory one could cut/grind a lot lower for the control mounted slide adjuster to cut lower, as it will move further but theres just no more slots for it - seems to be an extra 10mm or so of height available downwards and likely upwards as well - only thing with this is that the deck/skirt height also stays the same so you'd be dragging the skirt lower too. Hence the idea of the spacer in the first place.

PS. Emailed Deutscher to ask them, you never know they might have an idea.

[quote=N1KK0]

Anyway noticed it's cut height is a low of 22mm.

Made me wonder what the H660 is rates and and oddly it claims 10mm! Which I'm not seeing in practice at all - will go measure on the floor of the garage but well off this - no idea why as the tyres are pumped up all to spec (20psi) etc.



PS. Been meaning to ask this - when using the H660, I found the Low Speed terribly slow, whereas the Fast was a tad nippy, especially round obstacles (lots of Citrus trees) - is 'riding' the clutch(having in gear but applying varying levels of squeeze to the handle so the belt is pushed in/out a certain amount) in this style of gearbox an absolute no-no or vaguely acceptable?

I'd have thought it ok as the gears are engaged constantly, only the belt's tightness is altered.[/quote]

Hi Nick ,

With the cutting height being out ,I always check the plate that holds the spindle bearings hasn't been bolted on the wrong side, thus
raising the blades if the plate is bolted on top instead of being bolted under the deck.

It's always a lot quicker to compare your mower with another to see if something is installed wrong or bent ,I've had mowers where the
blade plate is bent upward and you straighten the plate and it lowers the blades a good half inch, blades also can be bent and need to
be flattened.

I contacted Deutscher days ago about the stepped blades and to measure the step but they never replied.

With first being too slow and second being too fast and slipping the V belt ,the more the belt slips the quicker the wear ,I wouldn't
say it's been designed for constant slipping but I've had ride on mowers where the gear speed is just controlled by how
much the V belt slips.

I see the Deutscher mower lists it's speed in gear at 2500 rpm ,so I would try second gear at a lower rpm and see if the speed is right
or speed up the rpm in first ,if the speed still isn't correct I'd put some lower profile tyres on to slow down second gear.

They also don't recommend cutting on a slope greater than 10 degrees to the horizontal.

On normal flat terrain I would think these mowers would cut well between 1800 rpm and 2500 rpm.

Deutscher also recommend to use a low throttle settings when engaging the ground drive, especially in high gears.
Reduce speed on slopes and in sharp turns to prevent overturning or loss of control
Do not mow excessively steep slopes.

If the blade at the front is a lot lower than the blade at the back then the front wheels need lifting or rear wheel need lowering
if you cant adjust the deck but you need to check the blade plate and blades aren't bent.

Cheers
Max.

Hi Max,

Firstly, thank you as always for your efforts - you always bust your backside - and it's never NOT appreciated, so thank you.

Not sure why the quote function on the forums isn't working properly (atleast for me) but I will respond:

- I'm 99% sure everything on the Deutscher is where it's meant to be, it showed no signs of being modded etc nor any significant damage. But I am happy to take pix if you wish. Not exactly sure what you mean by the 'plate that hold the spindle bearings', as I cannot see how this could be mounted anywhere other than where it is. But if you think some pix would help, let me know happy to take. :-)

- the blades and disc carrier plate are all not the root cause, checked and the blade height inside the skirt is even for both blades, no bending in them (they're the HD 3mm thick ones, would be mighty effort to bend!) and the disc carrier is also at equal heights on both sides and also on the correct way (the central bolt on part is higher than the outside blade mounting points).

- RE: Stepped blades - as mentioned earlier those ones that are specifically for the Deutscher, I heard back from GA Spares a few days ago - theyve only got a very small 2-3mm step in them.

- Points taken RE: the speed issues, is manageable by working the 'clutch'(well the belt tensioner) - and I cannot see this causing any issues with the gearbox so likely fine.

- RE: slope angle - oh yes noted, and this is common across all rideons, ZTRs etc but in rural places - everyone goes beyond this with due amount of care, or we'd all needthose specialist slope mowers that cost a fortune. The slopes I'm on are pretty tame but all noted.

- RE: RPMs yes noted, I did do this on first usage but is something I do.

Thank you for the manual excerts, I do have the physical manaual here but appreciate the effort.

I've just been down and while it's far from ideal, I've added two thick washers to each of the 3 blade carrier bolts between the blade carrier plate and the central hub/spindle's plate. This gives ~5mm of differential between the blades' cutting height and the skirt height. This still just slightly keeps the centremost RAISED head just slightly inside the carrier plate, so the force of it is not entirely on the 3 bolts.

I'll give it a brief test later, worst case I'll remove completely or pull back to just one thick washer each. Was super simple to do and every few mm is handy, but if there's any vibration or loosening of the bolts I'll just put it back to OEM setup.

I think making up the two part spacer setup might be the best approach to getting ~20mm of a step, for whatever reason Deutscher really have the skirt very low compared to the blades, with ~30-40mm difference lower on the skirt at every point other than the front where it's still ~20mm lower.

FWIW didn't like the lack of the central hubs penetration on the disc carrier with the two washers as spacers, so removed one, so only a single washer ~2mm in place. As much as I am sure it would be fine not worth the potential nightmare of the disc carrier breaking free.

Used angle grinder to place extra 'lower' adjustment slot in top cut height adjuster, took 5mins, super easy not sure if it will be usable given lower skirt height too but better than nothing.

Hi Nick,

I don't think the spindle bearing plate has been installed on the wrong side of the deck and it's probably not possible
with your Deutscher mower but is just something I would check on a machine if it's possibly put together wrong because
of the cutting height and you always check nothing is damaged as I've seen a lot of damaged 3 mm thick blades ,they
most probably damaged the blades from hitting concrete drain covers or not seeing concrete pavers etc.

I knew of your reply about the step measurement on the Deutscher blades and only mentioned I hadn't heard from them
because you said you sent Deutscher a message and it was my way of saying they may not respond because my
question had no response from Deutscher.

If the blade plate is mostly flat another option is to drill holes closer to the centre line of the blade plate and install the longer stepped blades
without cutting the length down of the blade or drilling the blade holes out in the blades.


Cheers
Max.

Hi Mr Western,

Thanks for the reply.

See attached pix, freshly taken of the spindle bearing plate location, above & below the deck. So mine is below, hs no signs it's ever been moved or modded.

Point taken on any blade being able to be damaged - but I've literally got brand new blades out of the packet, so thats not a factor in terms of the cut height - I mean they'd have to be obviously damaged to have that difference int he cut height.

No dramas with the Deutscher info on the step, I appreciate your being so thorough. :-)

Thats a good idea with the blade plate, adding extra holes, to avoid having to mod those larger blades - only thing is the holes in the blade carrier as not a simple hole, rather the circular on one side and flat/straight on the other to stop the bolts from turning one they're put in. Not sure how I'd go with fabricating one of those, they're also reinforced with an extra collar of metal around them for reinforcement. I mean if you go down that path of those bigger stepped blades you're up for the cost anyway - so I suppose using the easiest way is logical - and that would be cutting them down using the existing holes in the disc carrier. Enlarging the holes on the blades from 13mm to 16mm wouldn't be overly hard.

Now as chance had it I had my 2nd use of the H660 last evening, was much better than originally - gloved up to avoid more blisters (which are still healing from last time) - a mentioned I'd placed a LOWER cut selection slot on the slide area. The height this cut at was pretty much bang on. But yeah was an issue quite regularly that the skirt would cause issues dragging, wasn't the end of the world but Deutscher have this too low 10-20mm up and would be perfect.

Only real way to do this is either a spacer or the stepped blades, seems plain and simple choice - as I did consider cutting 10mm off the bottom of the skirt and then quickly ruled that out as utter stupidity,

Cheers, Nick

PS. Max in looking for some more stepped blade options I've gone back to one you recommended earlier:
https://www.outdoorking-forum.com.au/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/120211/re-deutscher-h660-26-walk-behind-w-b-s-intek-10-5hp-needs-tlc-now-what.html#Post120211

In one of those recommendations/pix the step on the Orion blades is stated as 10mm, which is viable for me = 20mm would be nice but thats very rare and the HUGE slasher blades you linked earlier that had a 22m step are 250mm long meaning I'd have to cut too much off them (to get to the 115mm effective length needed). Tad too much mass on the end too - would be a worry.

But the Orion ones seem workable - but thats a very rare listing that shows the step size - none of the others seem to - makes me wonder if 10mm is the standard step on SKIT33 and all the other blades for them or if thats a one off set with a larger step. Might have to go in to a few shops and eyeball them As online you can't really tell but pix would make me think it's possible they all have a 10mm step .

Hi Nick
What about a 10/15 or 20mm disc and just use that as a spacer between the spindle and the blade carrier, that should be pretty simple and not too difficult to make?

Dupe post

[quote=NormK]Hi Nick
What about a 10/15 or 20mm disc and just use that as a spacer between the spindle and the blade carrier, that should be pretty simple and not too difficult to make?[/quote]


Hi Norm,

Hope you're well.

Yes, but as we discussed originally the tricky thing is incorporating that raised central 'knob' area of the spindle, which is without being a physics expert responsible for a lot of the heavy work keeping the disc carrier on. Yeah there's the three bolts but I reckon they aren't as important as this ~30mm wide bit.

So the hard thing is having one side of the spacer that will essentially be 'female' and allow that from the spindle into it, but then you'd also have to have a 'male' side of the spacer, where there'd be a raised 'knob' of the right size to go into the blade carrier. Thats the hard part - as drilling the holes and getting longer bolts is easy.

Not sure if I'm missing an easy work around on that - as I'd just go and get a piece of mild steel fromt he local metal mart & knock up if I felt I could replicate that central hub/knob in some manner, but not sure how I would do this as it seems pretty mandatory to replicate - unless the bults alone are fine? Not sure if I can get away with just those, just basic 10mm thick ones I believe.

G'day Nick,

I was thinking a flat 10 mm plate between the spindle plate and under the deck would lower the blades but you may need to adjust the
pulley up 10 mm on the top of the deck.


Cheers
Max.

Hi Nick,
an option to get around the nut in the middle problem is to have a hole in the middle of the spacer to clear the spindle nut, then you bolt the blade carrier on and that covers over the hole

[quote=NormK]Hi Nick,
an option to get around the nut in the middle problem is to have a hole in the middle of the spacer to clear the spindle nut, then you bolt the blade carrier on and that covers over the hole[/quote]

Hi Norm,

Yes, I can see that as an option, but the downside of that is whilst the spacer would be in place and bolted on - via the 3 bolts, it would not have benefit of that central hub to hold it in place. Now it is possible it is not needed at all and the 3 bolts alone might provide enough strength to hold it on, but I'd imagine Deutscher utilised that design for a reason and there's a definite benefit to how it slots into the blade carrier providing a lot of force itself.

Again I'm not sure if that if is overthinking things or not, I've not seen as many spindles & blade carriers in my time as yourself....so of course using the gold rule of 'all care, no responsibility' I'd definitely heed your thoughts as one who knows a LOT more than myself. I am just wary to move away from the designers original ideas off my own logic alone. :-)

So you think the 3 nuts alone would be more than ample to secure that size blade carrier?

So have used the big beast once more with the washers on the spindle as spacers for that extra 5mm or so. Does give a good cut height comparable with utility mower - getting better with knowing how to get the best from it e.g big long straight runs, don't mess around with areas you can't get just bomb on and come back later with the utility mower or trimmer.

The skirt still digs in too much in some spots so ordered some stepped blades as long discussed,


Ok well based on the terrific help of Norm & Max i hunted for some suitable blades with a decent step in them. Didn't want to spend a heap as wasn't sure this will be a long term solution. Ended up grabbing these:
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/234914543776

Asked the seller in advance if they were 3mm & heat treated. They took a full week to reply simply writing '3'. I assumed they're blades they'd be heat treated, so sure enough a bunch of mild steel painted ones turn up. Go figure - I've emailed asking wh they couldn't have just answered the query instead of deliberately replying selectively but not end of the world & was easier to mod than hardened would have been.

Used round file to enlarge the hole from 13mm to 16mm. Not overly hard. Then cut down the blades to the functional length of the flat ones, did the first one with an angle grinder - that was a tad messy - used hacksaw for the next. Much better. Cleaned up on bench grinder and put nice thick angle on them.

In hindsight I do wonder if as suggested drilling a new hole in the disc carrier further towards the centre would have been easier. I would love to know if the experts think that a 13mm round hole would be suitable as I would not be able to easily replicate the normal 'half round-half flat' holes that the bolts are meant for. Unless there's a trick to do I'm missing e.g drill 10mm hold and expand with small round & flat files?

The disc carrier is 3mm thick itself - so plenty thick enough, but unsure best way to do extra holes IF that was deemed feasible ? Could be handy option vs modding another 6 blades & I now have 8 x 13mm bolts etc.

Hi Nick,

The washers between the blade plate and hub isn't the recommended way of lowering the blades because of the lost surface
area that no longer supports the blade plate so any stress is concentrated on the flat washers now and can eventually crack
the blade plate at the bolt holes.

The recommended way is to machine up a spacer hub that will lock into a shoulder on one side and the other side of
the spacer it has a machined protrusion that locks into the blade plate ,but I haven't seen the diementions of the
blade plate or hub on this mower so as Norm mentioned a round plate with a hole will have more support than smaller washers.

Here are some factors to consider:

Surface Area Support: The blade plate mounting surface must maintain adequate support. If the washers increase the distance of the bolts from the blade plate to the mounting surface too much, it can lead to stress concentrations at the blade plate bolt holes, which may cause cracks over time.

Load Distribution: The large flat surface of the hub is designed to distribute the load evenly across the blade plate. By using only small washers, you are reducing the contact area significantly. This can lead to stress concentrations around the bolt holes, making them more susceptible to cracking, especially under the forces generated during operation.

Alignment and Stability: Spacing the blade plate away from the hub with washers can lead to misalignment. If the blade plate is not stable and secure, it can vibrate or flex during operation, increasing the likelihood of failure.

Material Stress: The blade plate is subject to significant forces, especially during cutting. If the current design relies on a flat surface for proper engagement and support, adding washers may not provide adequate support against these forces, leading to eventual cracking.


Alternative Solutions: If you need to lower the blade plate for any reason, consider using a properly engineered spacer that maintains the original mounting surface area. This solution would preserve the load distribution and alignment.

In summary, while it might be tempting to use washers for spacing, it's generally advised against in this scenario due to the potential risks involved. It would be best to find an alternative method that maintains the necessary support and load distribution for the blade plate.



The D hole on the blade plate is easily drilled and shaped using a Dremel and small stone.

I have a blade plate here that is multi drilled for different blades ,see image below.

Example of a spacer below showing machined hole on one side with equal sized outer shoulder on the other side.

Also blades can be made from cutting up a bar blade and drilling bolt holes like the ones below that have a 13mm step.

Cheers
Max.

Hi Max,
a blade boss extension would not be too hard to make. My little lathe struggles with that stuff but it can be done

Hi Norm,

I had factory machined spacers on MTD mowers but now when I look online I can't find any.

Flymo also used spacers to lower the blade and the spacers would fit together.


Cheers
Max.

I have a 660 here Max and as soon as I get a bit of space I will tip it on its side so I can get the blade carrier off so I can get some measurements and have a good look at it

That would be a good option Norm if Nick wants to get a spacer made ,if you had the time to sell him one that also would be a bonus
but any fitter and turner or lathe operator can make one.

I'd wait until Nick decides what is best for himself unless you want to look for yourself.

Cheers
Max.

Hi Max & Norm,

Wow a few days away and you guys have placed some terrific info there. Thank you ever so much.

- RE: washers as spacers - good points (as always) Max - I will remove them. I knew it was a bit of a bodge effort but your points are all noted and I will take out.

- Excellent diagram with the spacer disc thats needed. Yes, it's a tricky one as needs as your diagram shows the protrusion/raised section to go into the blade carrier & then the indent/depressed section so it can allow the shaft to go into it.

- Yes, I've just looked online and as with you Max, cannot find anything of the shelf - not that I thought I would on the spacer front.

- Max, thank you for confirming that those D-hole shapes are easily enough fabricated with a dremel after drilling, I will order a few stones to keep onhand - much thanks.

- Norm, that is a very kind offer - and one that if you're open to being fairly paid, I'd quite likely take you up on. When i remove the washer spacers, I think the stepped blades will only give ~5mm of skirt vs cut differential. A decent amount more (`20mm) I'd say would be ideal. The added benefit of this would be I could go back to using the vastly superior hardened slasher blades, though I do suspect the fluting of the crappy Cox ones will assist with the clippings being thrown better - as opposed to being clumped as is the case now.

I'm pretty good with no hitting obstructions, but still mild steel loses it's edge very easily.

If you have a H660 there, I'd imagine your measurements will be superior to mine. I'll pop you a direct message, but please I do NOT want you to do it at cost, you need to be fairly paid as it will be a great help to me - happy to pay in advance and you can refund me what you don't end up charging (I offer this as I don't want even the perception of your goodwill being taken advantage of).

Cheers, Nick

Hi Nick,
No problems I just have to find where I can get a piece of 20mm thick ally

If you get some rough measurement I will see is there is anything here Norm as I don't know the width of the hub ,there
is an old balancer here somewhere that looks similar to the pic below and is solid steel ,alloy may be too
expensive, thinking about It, I could cut the end off an alloy oxy tank ,can't remember how thick they are maybe 19 mm. might
be a few here. Probably have some steel tanks to cut the end off.

I wasn't thinking of using alloy ,for a more robust and long-lasting solution, steel would likely be the better choice.

Strength and Durability: Steel is generally stronger than aluminum and can handle more stress and wear over time. If you expect the spacer to take a lot of load and stresses, especially while mowing, steel might be the better option.

Cheers
Max

FWIW I located a decent source for some cheapish 6061 alloy discs:
https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006973943538.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller.1.2c54nLujnLujeg&gps-id=pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40196.404796.0&scm_id=1007.40196.404796.0&scm-url=1007.40196.404796.0&pvid=75ca5da4-8175-49ad-8173-f9e908a10711&_t=gps-id:pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40196.404796.0,pvid:75ca5da4-8175-49ad-8173-f9e908a10711,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238116%232002&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%2110.75%2110.75%21%21%2178.10%2178.10%21%402101c5ac17354659910146186e841d%2112000038907149219%21rec%21AU%21704119413%21X&utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller%7Cquery_from%3A

100mm x 30mm thick is ~$USD30 delivered from China. WOuld be a lot easier on Norm's lathe than steel - point taken on longevity etc - but I think for domestic usage - the 6061 would be as good. Just an idea anyway - you guys are amazing with your ingenuity. Very impressed.

Max,
Don't go to too much trouble, I can probably get a steel flange from my mates factory that is 20mm thick, I just have to cut it down, and thinking about it, if I'm going to cut it down I might as well cut it out of a bit of plate scrap up there

I guess it would be too easy if a 21 inch Rover boss could be modified.

Hi Max, I'm guessing that would be too small in diameter. I just need to get a bit more space in my shed so I can tip the 660 on its side, I have to change the oil anyway. I should get to it in the next few days

G'day Norm,

No rush ,I just remember the Rover 21 inch mower had a much larger boss but probably like you say still not the right diameter.

I don't think you'll have a problem finding something to machine down, tons of scrap here though.




Cheers
Max.