OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions On Ride On Mowers Questions on Greenfield Ride On Mower Frames Old Greenfield Ride-on: First Model?

i just scored this,have i bit off more than i can chew or are parts still around ?. pick it up 2moz

G'day gml,
Yes, that's worth the effort. Will be some effort, but worth it!
I say this based on some research and assumptions that I've not yet shared on these pages. In a nutshell I believe that's the FIRST model greenfield!! Note the straight thru chassis rails, the piano style hinge on the cowl, the front axle pivot is made of box section and under the STP sticker will be (or was) a round style gear motif and 'G' sticker. Also, the transmission cover under the seat is different, thicker drive chain etc.

I've only seen two others. One is a photo of a restored one that lurkes on these pages the other.......I bought in very serendipitous circumstances a few weeks ago!! Astute readers will recall me discussing having to unsieze a couple of flood damaged engines in another thread. One of them is on this machine.

I'm at work and should get back. I'm keen to discuss this one further! Especially interested in the green paint on the cowl. Mine has green on it also but is certainly a brush job done later in its life and had assumed it should be all over red - but I'm beginning to wonder........

Mine has a G40 (or is it a G45?). I'll check when I get home. I'll also try a get some photos happening. It's a pest for me trying to get photos to this forum. My iPad doesn't like it so will need to use my daughters laptop.

Excellent find!

Ok, so it's a G40. The other machine I have which is slightly newer is a G50.

Also, is that paint or mould? Either way, I just had a good scratch round and there is red under the green.

I've not yet found any serial number on either of these two early machines and am now guessing that they didn't serialise in the very early days

g'day prd thank's for the info,i am picking it up in the morning and will go over it for id numbers and what ever i can find,will post more pics also,i believe there is a box of parts with it as well..i bought it on a whim. but am happy i did!! more soon..cheers

Here's hoping the engine and the drive pulley are in the box of bits. Would be nice iif they were.
Either way the machine is in good nick! Better than mine

Hello gmland prd

I need help on this one.
I have changed the topic heading to reflect the possibility this
is a first model (?).

prd has given very clear identifiers of the identifiers of this model:-
- straight-through chassis rails
- box section front axle
- piano hinge bonnet
- round gear motif with G decal
- transmission cover, chain, etc.

My questions are:
- Does the '25' refere to the first model being a 25" cut?
- Any suggestion as to a model number?
- There seems to be a possibility of a green/red colour scheme?

This is clearly a post to follow.

-----------------------
Jack

G'day Jack, g'day folks,

Yes, it's my contention that this is an example of the first greenfield. I've been personally pursuing a desire to own an example of the first model ever built. I'd assumed for a long time that all red greenies were the same and that was the end of the matter. Interest was raised based on a comment by Gadge (I think) in another thread that the very earliest machines were 'slightly different'.

An insomniac has much quiet time to trawl gumtree, this forum and other places looking at photos trying to pick slight differences in what appear to be similar machines. This I did.

All of a sudden, an ad appeared that advertised an old Greenie that I felt I had to get. When I arrived (5 and a half hour one way trip) the eccentric chap selling it said he had another but it was in poor shape. Bingo! I felt I'd hit the jackpot. Another trip and that's where we are now.

I've been meaning to put together a bit of a thing for these pages on the find but hadn't got to it yet.

Let me get some photos over the weekend and I'll put together my thesis with the hope that it's of some use to y'all.

In response to your initial questions Jack:

yes 25" cut. Was there anything else available when the very first ones were built? My guess is no - but that's not proven by any stretch.

I've stepped away from the idea of a green Greenie:) Options were red or red, I think.

Model number? Again, I'm working on the theory that there wasn't one because ther was only one model!:)

Research has been purely physical and no written documents have been referred to. I've tried to find written information but can't. I'd love to get a hold of sales material, an IPC for these earliest machines and even newspaper ads etc. ( we've discussed before the lack of Trove post 1954). Written data would be wonderful but alas, I've got none.

What I have done is constantly tried to imagine "What would a bloke who is starting a business from scratch, with a new product (also from scratch) do? How would he develop the business and the product? How would the product evolve in this situation.

More to come.

Cheers,

g'day fella's i will just jump in if that's ok, more pic's seems the front was hand painted and the rest look's original red,

Damnation gml! That is a beautifully original lookin Machine!! Yep, red is the original colour for sure but I'm still 'green' with envy. Mine ain't that straight. Good you got the drive clutch/ gear, shame you didn't get the engine.

Well done, sir!

thank's prd' the p o was gunna turn it into a "planter box",do you think the carb in the pic would belong to it? also where would i get front tyre's for it? they are rs. i intend to pull it apart and clean it repaint it if i can find orig paint colour..cheer's

A planter box?! Some people have no clue!
Yup, I'd say the carb is off it. Certainly looks like it. Also the flywheel assembly looks like it would have come off it too.

The front tyres would have been solid rubber. Don't know how you would go trying to get solid rubber tyres for it now but you should be able to get pneumatics to replace the ones you have.

With a machine that straight I'd be going for a very sympathetic, minimalist restoration - but having said that this stuff is very much personal choice. Just thank the stars it's not going to have geraniums sprouting out of every orifice

Cheers,

i would like to find out the correct /closest colour for this,i have two weeks off and plan to tidy this jigger up a bit, thank you..

GML, any idea what front wheels they had, I have a couple of sets of the later ones used on the Anniversary models

The first models didn't run honda engines.

Ummmm, that's not my understanding SD. There is a thread in the old soap box about Theo's start at Rover that has an obituary article that mentions that the first machines had G30 engines. Of course this immediately shines a light on the fact that mine has a G40. Is the article wrong? Or am I wrong and there are even older machines out there? Or has mine been re-engined?

Understand please that I put forward my findings not as facts but as a working hypothesis. There is still much to know and by putting forward what I've worked out (or think I've worked out) we have a start point for a discussion. It's all part of the fun.

If you have stuff that sheds light on this, I'd love to hear it.

The thing I think this needs now is written documentation to fill in the gaps and to that end I intend to ring the state library on Monday.

Cheers,

PART 1

Again please note these are my own musings based on observation and assumption. They need to be verified or disproved. They are presented as a springboard for discussion and further research.

So, as mentioned before I'd assumed for a long time that all ' Red' Greenies were the same and were the first 'model'. I use inverted commas because I don't really think we're talking about specific delineated models here but rather slightly different manifestations of the same model(s).

A couple of things happened that started the ball rolling. First, a comment in another thread that the early machines (1966) were 'slightly different'. Second, I'd been puzzled by the way the front of the chassis was formed by plate thus allowing the engine to drop down lower. Obviously the reason was to drop the engine and reduce the bonnet height, by why not start with a design based on straight rails that put the engine height where it was wanted without the need for this extra manufacturing step. Just struck me as odd. Then the penny dropped! Maybe he DID start with straight rails. A 2am trawl through my photo collection revealed something I'd missed. Some did have straight rails!

The second was discovering a machine that had the circular logo we see above. I'd not come across it before. Everything I'd seen had the word 'Greenfield' in a stylised diamond above the bonnet grille. Clearly this was an earlier logo

To be continued.......

PART 2

Photos of straight through rail with a G65 and one which is 'dropped'.
Note the way the one with the straight rails has the steering wheel and bonnet top sitting in an ungainly and high position. Comparison can be made by noting the relative positions of the steering shaft cutout in the panel.

Photos of another straight rail that better shows the position of the steering shaft through the panel. Note also the G style logo, the bonnet pivot position and the axle pivot style. I'll come back to those but I'm suggesting this is a very early G65 machine.

I've jumped forward a bit. Working on the basis that the G30,G40 or G50 engines were the first ones used explains what happened. These engines are physically smaller in height than the G65 and sat nicely on the straight rails. Shortly after, the G65 was used and sat the bonnet and steering wheel too high. The chassis modification is in response to this and was used all the way up to the end of the HD8's in this style. Evolution of an existing design to fit a product development.

What was the first engine used? As already mentioned above, the obituary article gives that it was a '4.5hp G30 engine'. Mine is 4.5hp but is a G40 so a discrepancy there. I'm happy to run with the idea that there is a typo in the article and should read G40 but this is one of the many things that needs to be looked into fully.

Below is a photo of the other straight rail I have. It's G50 powered. Note the bonnet style (slotted, not meshed) and it has the pivots at the side off the cutter height adjust arm as do all machines except the earliest machines. Also note the front axle pivot style. I'll come back to that.

Were the small horsepower machines with the straight rail chassis continued in production for a while once the G65's and the dropped chassis came along? Dunno. It's one of the things I'd like to know the answer to and to that end the age of that g50 machine and its position in the story is a bit of a mystery to me.

To be continued......

G'day prd, gml, SD, and Norm
I feel this will be a slow discovery process, but I thank all
participants in piecing together this important manufacturer.

I appreciate the process that prd has presented here.
It is not a statement of 'the truth' but a likely scenario.

I hope, shortly, to write about the patents of Theo Reinhold.
His contribution to early garden tractor development has gone
un-recognised.

I note that SuperDooper has said the first models didn't run Hondas.
I would appreciate any evidence about that, because no one is sure
when Hondas were first used by Greenfield.

It was exciting for me to see gml's 'unveiling' of the (potentially)
first Greenfield logo, behind that later sticker. Brilliant!

The Greenfield story needs to be told, and I thank the enthusiasts
for bringing to life this important Australian manufacturer.

---------------------
Jack

Cheers, Jack.

For your part if you are able to dig up written stuff I haven't been able to find, that would brilliant. More coming very soon.

Very bad photo placement above. I'll try to do better.

First one is a detail of the drop on a later G65 chassis
Next out of sequence is a straight chassis with the high steering wheel.
Next a photo of a straight rail which doesn't show the rails very well. Below is a better example. Note the G Gadge
Next, detail of a dropped chassis machine showing that the steering shaft comes through much higher up. Well not really, optical illusion because the vertical panel is lower.
Last, straight rail G 50 machine. A bit of an enigma for the moment

Going out to take more photos

PART 3: Details.

Axle pivot: Gadge and others have mentioned before that the 'Reds' have the early style centre pivot front axle (as opposed to the axle nesting in a channel on later HD8's and beyond) and that the earlier ones were just a piece of flat plate and later ones were slightly formed. I noticed from the beginning that my G40 machine had something different altogether - welded RHS. Wasn't sure if this was original or a repair. gml's machine above is the evidence I needed. It's original and the earliest type (my unproved assumption).

As I mentioned earlier, the rusty straight rail with the G badge that I assume was G65 has the flat plate type. This and the G badge itself help place it in the timeline but of course we need written material here too. Similarly, the little G50 of mine has the formed one and helps (or hinders ?) in dating this machine.




Steering Lever Arm:

I've not mentioned this before. Photos below. All the Reds and HD8s I've ever seen have a cast aluminium arm. When I got my old girl home I noticed the steel arm. Again, was it original? gml's machine has helped again. Original and once again appears to predate the alloy ones seen normally.




Transmission Cover: Again, all Reds and HD8s have the one piece cover that's tapered in plan towards the bonnet. These earlier machines have a two piece cover that leaves the drive chain exposed (how very un-OH&S!) and allows access to the drive belt tensioner. Again, we can assume an earlier design. Also, it can well be imagined that when the design was first created the need for easy access to the tensioner was envisaged with hindsight demonstrating this wasn't necessary and was removed from later variants.




Chain width: this is an interesting one. My G40 machine has a massive 3/4 inch width drive chain and sprockets. Every other greenfield Ive ever known has 5/8" width. Again I'm putting this down to an initial design that was modified quite quickly with hindsight.




Piano hinge bonnet: appears it didn't last long and I'm guessing (guessing) it was never used with the G65 machines. Again has to be a first that was quickly changed as everything else has the pivot on or near the upper forward height arm bolt (depending on whether straight rail or dropped.

There are other differences but I'm guessing most people are starting to yawn so I'll quit while I'm ahead.

Short summary to follow

Summary,

Why do I believe it's the first model? Simply because I've not seen any other Greenie with so may 'firsts' which have been clearly replaced by design improvements. It also aligns with the statement in the obituary that the first machines had a 4.5hp Honda. Not exactly rock solid evidence, but it's all I've got. SD if you have anything on this please let us know as it changes everything.

If we assume that the 4.5 hp Honda was the one and only engine available, it stands to reason that only a 25 inch deck was available. And to me it stands to reason that an emergent company, urgently needing to get sales happening to offset the massive development and startup costs isn't going to muck around with a range of models. Sell one model and build a range in time, if that's what's needed.

Questions I have include:
How long was this model variant around?
How long were the little engines around after the G65 went in
Were only the little engine models fitted with the slitted grille bonnet faces and all G65s with the mesh grille? I had intended to discuss this one further but we can save it for another day.
When did a 28" deck become available

My own example of the beast is going to need a whole lot of lovin. gml's is way better!

Let the free and open discussion and the further investigation begin!

great work prd this is very interesting reading,today i found two work shop stickers on it from the same shop, i will google them and see if they still exist if so they have serviced this machine a few times they may know more,i have it all torn down it has been painted in red lead i thought it was rust, there is signs of yellow and red when i started to wet sand it..cheers

G'day gml, I'd be very interested to know what you find out. Also I'm keen to know how you go with the colour match.

Cheers,

i will keep you informed,i have to slow myself down i wanted this to be a now and then thing but its already in pieces,i will order front tyres and tubes tonight they are a weird size as you would know. i need a steering arm coupler for the front lhs i see in pics of yours they have been replaced,cheer's

this is my Red model version. Engine is just there for some where to put it..
Mine has a stamped "dash", Plate steel on steering mount not box, box & plate chassis solid front wheels & is a mesh grill front. My yellow HD8 is slightly different from my red model

are the dual rears on mine original or has some one added them?any clues

I read an internet article (I'm trying to find again) which was discussing the first engines & overheating issues they were having, (I beleive that was how honda got into them) then went on to discuss how the mesh front & bonnet flutes came about for the overheating problem

Added on, like the front bumper & rear exhaust on mine but it could of been a request by the buyer due to slopes (roll over)

[color:#FF0000][size:14pt] A topic from Here (ODK) with regards to Red HD8[/size][/color]

ok thank's, i just spoke with owner he say's it came from belgrave and had g45 small engine, and he believe's its a 66

norm they are 2.50.6,ard to find,cheers