OutdoorKing Repair Forum Forums Repairs and Maintenance Questions on Engines Questions On Honda Engines Chonda GX200 clone wiring help

Hi, I am attempting to rig up a remote OFF/RUN/START switch on the handlebars of an old Rover slasher/mower using a motorbike control switch. To do this I will need to splice into the wires on the Chonda control panel. There are lots of shielding and covers making it difficult to see which parts of the spaghetti belong where, and to make it more difficult the Chonda motors seem to use different coloured wires to Honda. However the connectors are the same, so it should be easy enough to work them out from those.

Can somebody with far more technical expertise than myself please double check my wiring? For one thing I was not quite sure if the charging coil should go to both RUN and START on the switch, but that is the way it looks on the schematic?

The wording is a bit confusing. Instead of OFF/ON/RUN, Honda uses OFF/RUN/START, so "RUN" does not necessarily mean the engine is running at this key position. It just means the circuits required for running the engine are open.

Hi VM,

Think of it as off earths out the coil wire to ground (negative)

In the on or run position the starter key switch doesn't need to touch any wires together in this position.The on /run is the same.

The start position just energizers the starter solenoid so battery positive to the starter solenoid .

The 3 key positions are OFF/ (ON RUN) /START

If you are using a motorbike ignition switch it may not work as you need a switch that when it's in the off position it has 2 different
connectors that complete a circuit and they don't all work like that.

The charging coil is connected to positive no mater what position the switch is in .

Cheers
Max.

Problem with using a motorbike switch is they use a 12 volt system and that means their coil is powered by 12 volts, you switch the ignition of, that shuts power to the coil and the motor stops. With mower motors they use magneto ignition and once the motor is started (all the battery is
required to do on mower engines is spin the motor over like a pull starter) and then the only way to stop the motor is to earth out the coil. You can use the motorbike ignition key and the start button but you then need a kill switch button to kill the magneto

Thanks Max and Norm,

Unfortunately I don't quite follow, as I was hoping to just get a confirmation on the wiring in my diagram, on which I marked the key positions in red. Any other diagrams just add to my confusion.

The old Harley control switch has OFF/RUN/START. I would have thought this setup exactly the same, unless I am missing something?

Failing that, these control switches are a dime a dozen on ebay, which should do the job as the switch is said to be a "kill switch".

What we were saying VM is the motor bike ignition switch won't work because it's the same principle as a car the switch when off
cuts power to the coil and a mower and a some motor bikes like road trail without a battery earth out the coil when the switch is off..

I usually just check the switch with an ohm meter in the off position ,then run ,then start to work out what wires are what.

The other diagrams I thought were easier to follow

Cheers
Max.

Hi Max, According to my original schematics, nothing is connected on "RUN". This seems to match well with your re-drawing of it.

I should add that I am not talking about replacing the key entirely. I intended to leave the key stuck in RUN position and splice into the existing wires for the remote starting/stopping.

Also, I would have thought a kill switch is a kill switch and a starter button is a starter button, no matter what the application? One switch has two wires and flicks on/off, whether it be to a coil or to a ground. The button is just a typical momentary push button, again with two wires. A friend has this on a Go-Kart which just has an ordinary engine like on a motor mower. I will have to take a look at how he did it next time I see him. I am having difficulties seeing why this will not work, as it is really just a simple bypass.

Example:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/296374168158?

Or maybe as I am leaving the key in RUN position, all I really need is the starter button, so something like this, plus a separate on/off flick switch?

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/354497975400?

But basically, both methods are the same.

Switches are not the same, momentary only allows power through the switch when you press it, this will earth out the magneto. With coil ignition you require constant power through the switch till you turn it off to kill power to the coil. For a magneto you require a N/O switch, for coil ignition you require a N/C switch
The Harley switch you put up is a N/C switch for coil ignition, not a magneto

Thanks Norm, So can rule out the old Harley and the ebay one that is advertised for a motorbike.

But the ebay momentary button is an N/O switch. How will it earth out the Magneto when both wires on the momentary push switch are positive and none go to Earth?

For ON/OFF, I reckon I can just use an ordinary flick switch but in reverse manner, so ON position is OFF, OFF position is ON. I had one on the old Honda engine to switch it on and off. Just had to mount it upside down.

They do usually have a earth on one switch that goes to the handle bars that you don't see as it's part of the mounting clamp
that's why they only have one kill switch wire VM. Three wires total.

I can't advise what wire goes where as there is nothing that tells you the wiring diagram for the switch on eBay as you check
the wiring with an ohm meter when you have the switch in your hand ,the red button is usually the kill switch and the grey
button is for the starter solenoid

Cheers
Max..

Thanks Max, I'll test it all out with a multimeter first, to see how the wiring works.

This one has two wires forming a connection when pushed and nothing on it earths. It is an N/O momentary switch. Already have one of these in the shed and know how it works.

Then that switch would be a starter switch ,one wire to the battery positive and the other wire to the solenoid wire VM

On other equipment the positive to this switch would be taken from the ignition key switch when it's in the on position otherwise
the push switch will always work when it's pushed.


Cheers
Max.

Thanks Max,

I notice you can get waterproof buttons as well for marine applications, not that I will ever be mowing in the rain. Haha!

There is also this variant among the cheaper Chinese control switches which has four wires, two independently to each switch. But of course the ON/OFF switch will be backwards (OFF will be ON and ON will be OFF) unless there is a way to get inside and flip it.

Vint_mow,
The N/O ebay switch can be used as a kill switch, one wire comes from the magneto wire and the other wire from the switch goes to earth. It is not allowing power to flow through the switch while the motor is running but when you close the switch it allows power to go through to earth and this kills the magneto coil. The switch you put up in your last post is for coil ignition, but you could use the horn button wires as a kill switch but there is plenty of cheaper kill switches out there. I set up a small quad bike recently with 2 handelbar switches, one for a start button, one for the kill switch. Both switches are the same and are N/O switches

Thanks for your help Norm,

I've since been told that when it comes to those generic Chinese controls, if the ON is marked as a circular arrow at the TOP of the control (typically RH side mount), this is an N/O switch. However if the TOP of the control is marked with a crossed out circular arrow, that is an N/C switch.

So the example I showed in my previous post is more likely to be an N/C switch.

The one in the photo below is an N/O switch and stated as such by the seller.

It is rare for sellers to tell buyers if the switch is N/O or N/C. I can only guess a lot of those online sellers are simply flogging these switches off, probably without knowing or caring exactly which kind of switch they are. There must be lots of people buying them, only to discover that they got the wrong type when it arrives.

EDIT: See photo and wiring diagram attached.

Ok vint_mow I didn't know they made a motorcycle kill switch like that for magneto ignitions so there you go

Norm, I've gotten myself in a bit of a muddle because technically speaking a normally open (NO) switch is an electrical switch that is in an open state when not activated. When activated, the switch closes the circuit and allows current to pass through. Normally open means that the switch or contact (when it is not compressed or activated) doesn't let current flow through in its normal state.

As this switch is closed in the off position, that technically means it is a N/C switch, but as the "activation" in this case is to kill the engine, I guess that is why it is viewed here as an N/O switch? Is that correct or am I getting myself confused?

I do understand that the momentary push button has to be an N/O switch.

Not sure what you are getting at there vint_mow but you can only use a N/O switch on a magneto, brush cutters, mowers blowers. I am working on a pressure washer with an electric start Chonda on it at the moment. If I can get to the back of the switch block I may be able to see where the wires go

Not sure if this is the type of switch you are working with. Problem is I can't get it open any further to see what is going on with the wires in there

I guess what I'm saying is the toggle switch will technically be an N/C switch even though the starter part of the switch works on the N/O principle. With a magneto, kill switches are backwards to what you find in a car or motorbike. OFF is ON and ON is OFF. So for a mower an ON/OFF flick switch is basically just an upside down N/C switch.

I was wrong in my earlier photo when I suggested one of those Chinese switches is N/C and the other N/O. They are in fact both N/C switches, although the "push button" part is N/O. I will probably end up buying one to satisfy my own curiosity and see if there might be some way to reverse the wiring (or the entire switch) to turn that part of the switch into an N/O switch.

That is the same control panel Norm. I had the same problem in not being able to see which wire goes where and some of the Chondas tend to use different coloured wiring to the original Honda. I can only guess they use whatever wire they have around. The connections are the best at showing which wire is which.

Hi vint_mow
That switch is obviously factory set up, I couldn't see how to get that metal cover off so I could trace any of the wires. That diagram you have put up is good info if somebody has to dig into it. I might have to dig into the kill switch part in there today because this motor had spark 2 days ago because I had it running and yesterday it had no spark. Would have been so much better if they had used different colours on the wires so you could trace them

One way to get a good look might be to remove the ignition cylinder from its socket and do some testing for conductivity with a multimeter.

I'm not sure, but I've been told the risk with having a starter button on the handlebars is that I could accidentally engage the starter while the engine is running. But as I will be disconnecting the battery after the engine fires up, this is not a problem. I use to carry a battery on the machine at one time, but found it too difficult to mount and the vibration killed the batteries in a short time. So now I just wheel the battery around separately on a dolly to start the machine with some Anderson cables.

The following is posted for information purposes only!

For applications where the battery is permanently connected, I can only suggest a timed relay to shut the starter motor off after the engine fires, or adding an extra switch to turn the starter on and off. Something like this might do the job perfectly. I can only find these switches for sale in America and they are pricey. Could probably get one for a few bucks on a site like AliExpress, that is if it ever arrives.

The Blue and Black wires on START are not needed and only two wires not three needed for the on/off switch.

There seem to be two different models (NO and NC) for the off/on, but I've been told the wiring can be changed simply by removing a rubber seal at the bottom of the switches.

So you accidentally push the starter button while the motor is running, big deal, you have never accidentally gone to start your car while the motor is running? Stop overthinking it just gets you more confused.

I edited my post around the same time as you posted.

Well it's on the handlebars Norm and as a mate warned me, it could be easy to brush up against a tree branch or accidentally bump it myself. But as I don't have the battery hooked up permanently, this isn't a problem anyway. I was just posting up the warning in case someone else tries to replicate my method and they have a battery hooked up permanently. Better to be safe than sorry. Starter motors and geared flywheels are expensive.

Believe it or not, I did one time hit the starter in my car when the engine was running. No harm was done on that occasion, but the grating sound was pretty dreadful and definitely not a good thing to do.

Off road bikes have starters on the handelbars and you never hear of them having problems trashing around in the bush and having things bump the starter button.

Well most times okay, but mowing around lots of bushes and trees with overhanging branches is a bit different. I guess that is why they use key switches located down on the engine instead of buttons up on the handlebars.

But as I said, doesn't concern me anyway because the battery is not hooked up permanently.

Not sure what you are doing there vint_mow when you say the battery is not hooked up permanently, do you connect it up every time you need to start it?

Yes Norm, I hook it up to a wheel around battery through an Anderson cable to start.

This is all part of my Rover Heavy Duty walk behind slasher renovation. I have tried to mount a battery on this thing a few times but really there is nowhere to put it. I would like to see how the Deutscher Heavy Duty Walk behind slashers manage to incorporate a battery mount. I guess if I ever make up a heavy duty steel belt guard to cover the top, I might be able to mount a small battery on top of this. One day I have plans to incorporate the battery, but for now have put it in the "too hard" basket.

Putting the switch up on the handlebars is more a safety feature than anything else. If ever I have inexperienced people using this machine, there is a risk they could start it down on the engine with their feet underneath the thing or hands in the way of the belts. Putting everything up on the handlebars will reduce that risk.

Hi vint_mow,
this is where I have mounted the battery on a couple of Deutschers. I could have used smaller motorbike batteries which would have made it easier but this is what I ended up doing

That position should work on the old Rover too. Yes, motorbike batteries would be a lot smaller and lighter.

The reason I used this battery is because it is the same as the one in his rideon so he can swap them if needed. His rideon is a 16hp so it needs a bigger battery.

So I pulled apart the switch module on the Chonda GX-200 clone last night. I am surprised at how basic the wiring is. Just four connectors, two for on/off and two for making the connection to the starter motor. The off position is exactly the same as the old style "kill switch" - just grounds out the coil. So it is nothing fancy. I see no reason why I should run into problems by leaving the key turned on and running basic bypasses for on/off and starter. If anyone can see any problems I am potentially missing, please post. I am already aware of the possible risk of bumping a starter button while the engine is running, but I came across a cheap timer delay relay online which could easily be put in the starter circuit to disconnect the starter motor a short while after starting.

Hi vimt_mow, not sure about the earth from the starter haven;t seen any like that before, as the starter motor is bolted to the motor it is earthed that way As long as your batt negative is connected to the mower frame or to a bolt somewhere on the motor that is all you need. Also with the solonoid earth you can use one of the bolts holding the solonoid to the body

Hi Norm, Most of them don't have a dedicated ground terminal. They are just earthed through the mounts.