thank's jack,very interesting.it seems that honda was the first engine used,i found on mine a service tag from kilsyth mower services bayswater rd bayswater it is hard to read but says sold and serviced by them,also while cleaning parts i came across this it was cut out with torch i have tidy'd it up wit a file,not sure why it was done maybe chain had come off and tore sheet metal? [Linked Image]