Hi guys,

I've always been fascinated by cylinder mowers, but have only ever used rotaries.

While I was laid up with a broken leg a few months ago, my neighbour kindly offered to mow my lawn for me. He is a bit of a lawn fanatic too, and used a cylinder mower. The result was pretty darn cool.

So, now I'm looking at the classifieds for one. Some SB45s seem to want insane money. Others are cheap as chips. But I'm no expert AT ALL on the things so I was seeking help with a few and figuring out what would be a good, solid buy to work on and use as a daily.

Here are some that have caught my eye:

SB45 14" (3x pics)
"$275 Scott Bonnar 45 series cylinder mower (14”) (3hp Briggs and Stratton 1971) just been serviced, even has original Scott Bonnar hands grips, starts first kick, VGC."

SB45 17" (5x pics)
"$400 Neg. Scott Bonnar 17” Reel Mower with pram handles. Starts well and cuts well. Briggs and Stratton 3HP motor. Reluctant sale as we have moved to a house with no lawn!"

The cheaper the better, but I don't want to inherit a total problem. I'm still learning with repairing small motors and I don't have a huge area to work on them or store them. I think a 14" would be better when it comes to space available to keep it out of the elements. The more original the better too.

I also want some $$ left in the bank for fitting higher lift rollers and brackets for mowing buffalo.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Hi MS,

I guess as they are both Series II frames it's really going to be horses for courses and it all depends on whether you prefer the wider cut of the 17 or the smaller machine at 14.

I originally cut my teeth on a Series 1 14 inch machine which incidentally I've still got and to tell you the truth I loved it to death but now I use a 20 inch machine and wouldn't go back. It all depends on how much lawn you have and also how much time you will eventually want to spend behind a mower as you can't think about just now as you'll spend heaps while you've got a keen interest and want to spend less once the novelty wears off and it merely becomes a chore.

I still very much love my time with the mower and it's been 39 years now since I got my first Scotty and I still haven't looked back.

You'll find that the 14 inch chassis will probably have less frame damage opposed to the 17 which there aren't many without stress fractures in the rails.around for sale.

BTw that 14 inch machine doesn't have it's original engine as that one would've had a Kirby fitted from day one.

Also the 17 doesn't seem to have it's original 2.5 Hp engine either. 3 Hp's were fitted on the later Series II's, but then there were some oddball engines fitted over the lifetime of the Model 45's production run which was a very long run indeed.

Cheers,
BB.

Well, it took a while, but I finally picked up a 14" solid. Still had original brass height adjuster, grass deflector screws and thrust pad!

She had been repainted at some stage, but the original colour is still visible inside the chain case and under the deck. Lots of surface rust as it was a Geraldton machine at some time in its life and the strong, salty sea breeze has left its mark. Looks like a bit of structural rust on one of the braces under the deck, but that's going to get fixed if needed.

The engine has been replaced at some stage, as it's running a Briggs 3HP 82232 I/C from 1988. Actually not a bad motor for a Briggs thumper. It had an oil leak from a cooked as crank case seal which I've now replaced. I'm currently in the process of dismantling it to replace all gaskets, etc and perhaps give it a "Briggs Assembly Style" respray. I really just want to put a GX120 on it, but where is the fun (and involved swearing) in that?!

Despite the rust and dirt it's actually in great nick. Previous owner oiled all the bearings and kept the chains nice and greased. Even went over it with me when I bought it to make sure I knew where all the oil holes were! I've used it a few times on my Buffalo and the cut has been great. I bought a new 8 blade reel and high cut roller and bracket.

I wish I took a few before photos, but I didn't. It's currently in a million pieces, if you're interested in that and can use your imagination...

Looking forward to getting it rebuilt, thankfully winter is truly here.

Hi Mystyler,

Firstly I'm happy for you as that's pretty much how I started off as well, but I have to ask the question, why did you purchase a new 8 blade reel as you will be using this on buffalo ?

Cheers,
BB.

G'day BB,

I've also got some Zoysia I'm going to use it on too. Just haven't used it on the Zoysia yet as it's only a few months old and a wee bit bumpy for the 45 this stage.

Buffalo looks nice when cut by a reel, just have to be careful about the ever-increasing pillow as the tough stems keep shooting out sideways to dodge the rotating blade!

My Father-in-law has Sir Walter and it did an excellent job without the need for the extra height adjuster.

TC.

G'day TC,

The cut on Buff is unreal. Unfortunately though, I don't think the previous owners of the house did much for the health of their lawn. I think the back needs a good few grooms (or a vert...!) to get rid of the spongy layer underneath. The Buffalo on the verge is much nicer as it's only a year or two old, but it's full of Box Tree nuts so the Victa rotary it is. Can't wait to see what the Zoysia ends up like.

I've taken all the parts to the sandblaster today. Even going to get the catcher done. Not too fussed about knocking the dents out of it beforehand, it's only going to get dented again. Not original either, but a powder coated "Kermit".

Now looking at the rear rollers. Not sure if I want to crack them apart...but there was so much crap under the deck of the thing, I can only imagine the rust that's hiding in them.

Hi Mystyler,

I'm not sure Buffalo can be verticut, and I'm happy to be corrected. With the nature of the plant to shoot out sideways, you have to be very careful where it sends it roots down as I "don't think" it is at regular intervals like Couch.. That is what I meant when talking about the pillow effect as these stolons begin to lay on top of each other instead of seeking their own root system. Please do some research or wait for the more experienced crew to jump in on the discussion.

I didn't pull the rear roller apart for my groomer restore. The unit has been in my hands for 25 years and I'm comfortable knowing its not going to be wrecked.

This second unit I'm doing will have it completely refurbished and it's the next set of pieces to be blasted. I haven't looked inside as yet, and probably dreading to do so, but it has to be done. That way I'll know it has been fully checked and anything that needs replacing has been done. The unit worked fine over the cutting season but I want it to be even better next time Spring wakes up the lawn.

Catchers are a whole different beast and no matter how careful we are, they always manage to pick up a new dent or nick!! In my opinion, if the machine is to be used (as opposed to showroomed) then your approach is fine and I agree with it. The units look great when first done, and keeping a can of the colour used can touch up the nicks and help maintain neighbour envy! And let's face it, the better your machine looks, the better chance you are to keep it that way...

Keep the updates coming - with photos!

TC.

G'day TC,

Yep, I'm not the tiniest bit game enough to verti the Buff myself. There are a few contractors around these parts who have successfully done it to Buffalo and the results have been fantastic. But when it comes time to have some skin in the game...I may just get it aerated come October. I'm certainly going to get it properly looked at before I jump in.

This thing I've got...I don't think it's been touched much since probably 1968! Everything that needed oil or grease got it, which is a plus. I guess for piece of mind I want to take the rollers apart. On the other hand they've survived for five odd decades of not being touched. So much for this being just a reel and paint job!

No way I want it showroom. If I went that far I could never use it. It has to be used, it's what it's for! The catcher dents were that tradeoff and I've gone for a colour I can get in a can if needed for touch ups.

I'll try to sit down over the weekend and resize the photos I have on my phone. They're a tad large to attach as they are.

Feel free to send your photos to hotcopperthecount@hotmail.com and I'll resize in a few seconds.. Also, coming straight from phones tends to disorientate images on their side!

TC.

Hi guys,

To be brutally honest these rollers if not left out in the elements really don't need any major maintenance and thus there's no need to pull them apart unnecessarily.

The original bearings fitted are not precision bearings, just trolley bearings that are not directly replaceable, but if they have to be then they are now being replaced with a sleeved more common high speed bearing so that they can fit into the original carriers.

In all the years that I've been servicing 45's and that's going back to the early 1980's, I've never had to replace a rear roller bearing.

Cheers,
BB.

There you go Mystyler, ignore Bonnar_Bloke at your peril.

TC.

TC and BB,

I have finally got around to sorting the photos out, but thank you for your kind offer TC. It's not of the whole thing, I had already taken it apart before taking photos, but you get the idea of the condition. Usable, but a bit rough. Front roller isn't bent, just uncorrected optical distortion from my phone's camera.

Still haven't taken the rollers apart. Still undecided on that front. Main reason I want to disassemble is to clean and protect. Geraldton is subject to very strong seabreeze year round.

Thinking about going new chains, sprockets and carriers "while I'm there."

I'm keen to see how the blasting comes back as there were some interesting sections on that frame.

I like the front roller and how it allows more grass tips to be upright before trimming them off.. What heights are you going for in your two varieties?

TC.

G'day TC,

I'll look at keeping the Buffalo around the 30mm mark. The verge cops full summer sun and it's not too happy cut shorter. The Zoysia? Probably around 15mm to start with and go from there.

The front roller is something else. Can't wait for it to come back from the blaster. I cleaned it up before I took it in and the deck didn't look as bad. We'll see what eventuates but I'm glad I didn't leave it.

With 2 cutting heights you'll need to invest in the advanced HOC tool - commonly known as length of flat steel with nut & bolt. Either that or you can just remember how many turns of the height adjuster between them...

TC.

I have to invest in a precision tool...it's currently how many turns...

I should write it down to avoid swearing!

I found the biggest issue was remembering what section I finished on to be able to remember to turn up or down!! I used to run 2 different lengths for my couch - front for looks vs. back for play. Not now - so much easier having one. Sounds like you need to find a visual aid to help, like one of those cheap see-thru keyrings you can write on or something simple like that..

When are you expecting the parts back from blasting?

I've actually seen something done to the height adjuster itself. Bit like a washer welded on with a "pointer" that moves up and down with the shaft as you twist the adjustment handle. Two lines on the side marked with the cutting heights. Either way I'll figure something out before spring hits.

Everything came back today from the blasters. Also managed to get my handle bars back from the Chromers as a well! Done a lot of running around today, I'll tell you!

Pictures of some parts are attached. See what you reckon. I've got nothing but good things to say about the job on first look. Will start putting it back together tomorrow. Unfortunately, I have put some pinholes in the fuel tank when on the wire wheel. Have some JB Tank Weld to try and fix the problem because it all runs otherwise after being pulled apart and refreshed.

Agree - looking good and ready to rebuild!

So, who do you play cricket for?

TC.

Hey TC,

I used to play for my former suburb Nollamara. Unfortunately work gives me little time to get to training or match days so I'm limited to the occasional spontaneous backyard match during summer...

Now, over the weekend I manged to finish my 45 and get in three shakedown mows. Here is a sneak peak. Just waiting on some stickers and a replacement metal decal as mine has seen much, much better days. I've since attached the brass ID plate too. She's not for show, so I didn't really bother too much about the dents in the chain cover or catcher. The catcher wasn't original anyway, but an '80s Kermit.

Oh dear. I somehow ended up in a Honda Shop today.

If you're thinking about replacing the motor on these things, it'll be the best thing you'll ever do. The GX100 is a straight bolt up and go - you just need slightly shorter mounting bolts.

Ideally, a GX120 would have been cheaper, but I am trying to keep my 5/8 steel clutch half, and I couldn't set my handlebars upright enough without plates or bending the bars around the old Briggs, let alone one of these things. I suspect if you have the newer, "kick out" style bars, this will be a non issue and give you more options.

You can also pick up a Briggs 550 or Honda GP160 between $290-$350. There is a lot of refinement to be found in these newer donks.

Thus why I've suggested to restorers on this platform to no longer persevere with the old flat head Briggs units, especially if they've got a twin railer and move over to one of these newer style engines that preserve the frames so much more and thus the repair jobs on fatigued units doesn't have to be so in-depth with strengthening gussets.

These newer engines and especially the 3.5hp Briggs unit can be run straight out of the box sitting unattached and it only slightly moves around while the old units will jump around like a cat on a hot tin roof and all that energy is being forced into the chassis, thus why most of them have failed over time.

Years ago bowling clubs bought Electric powered machines to avoid this problem of thumping being passed on into the greens surface but now they can use a petrol powered unit without concern for their ground underneath the machine.

Cheers,
BB.

PS. These new Briggs units (XR / IC / 550's) can be picked up for around $250 if you look hard enough and that's simply a no brainer in my opinion.

BB, $250 is a steal. I know they have alloy bores but still, domestic use should see a whole heap of use from that.

It may have even been a post by you on here that really cemented the idea of a new motor. I had to chemically weld the 1 quart fuel tank on the Briggs. Try as I might, I couldn't find a proper replacement tank with support strut. That, and like the proverbial cat, the amount of movement it had when I was test running it on a piece of cardboard at just above idle...I shut it off in case I cracked the case. So she's been overhauled and is sitting happily on a shelf in the storeroom. Not sure what will become of it, but that's a problem of choice for a later date.

So here are some pretty well final pics after the engine change. Just waiting for a replacement metal handlebar badge really. If anyone is thinking of the GX100, it bolts right on as it is available with a 5/8 shaft at the correct height. You will need some new bolts to hold it to the deck, the ones for the original Briggs are a bit too long. No more than a few dollars.

Here is hoping to another 50 years of service.

Hi MS,

Did you end up buying a set of those reproduction grips from George ?

Certainly looks superb and years of faithful service will be had from it.

Cheers,
BB.

Morning Bonnar_Bloke,

I certainly did. Worth the money. They are just like my original grips. Except that they don't fall apart when you touch them! I was expecting a fight to fit them, but they slid on no worries. I used some Kwikgrip to hold them in place. One stuck, the other didn't. Will clean it up and try clamping it this time.

Thank you. I wasn't really going for this level of "new" but in the interest of longevity I think it was the right thing to do.

Once I get that old Shademaster buffalo less spongy I hope to at least go back to a standard bracket. We'll see what the future holds.

Hi MS,

I was originally going to do the grips myself some 4 years ago as I have a perfect set that would've suited perfectly as the originals to make the mould.

I looked at the pricing and back then I just couldn't justify the outlay for minimal return that would've been gotten back. Remembering this was way before the SB craze ever got out of control like it has atm.

Anyway I'm glad someone did it in the end, but the pricing is still probably a tad on the high side but this would be to recover the initial outlay as quick as possible as this craze could end as quick as it started I've always said.

Are these made out of genuine rubber or are they more of a plasticised compound like the Rover Thoroughbreds had on their grips ?

Cheers,
BB.

Hey BB,

Dang, nothing beats hindsight. Nevermind, it could have gone the other way completely.

I wouldn't be surprised if George wants to recover costs ASAP. No one knows what this market will do!

I'm unsure of the composition. I would think they are a compound as they have a bit of a "silicone" feel to them but I don't think they are. If I remember I'll snap a photo tomorrow.

Hi Mystyler,

The mower looks terrific. I like the choice of the gx100, if I ever get my machine back in one piece (serious 17” twin rail issues) I would love to put one of these on. I don’t like how the new Briggs motors and gx120’s etc. hang over the edge of the mower by about 10-20mm, and I’m assuming the ohv Honda (or Chonda depending on how much I have to sink in to repairs or donor motors) will be much smoother than the old Briggs side valve I currently have. Anyway, love your work.

Cheers,

John

Hello John,

Thank you for the kind words. I wanted something that was going to last, and once I realised the level of corrosion I decided to "do it properly". It was initially just going to be put back into tip top mechanical condition.

The GX100 is a pearler. Dead quiet at idle, not to bad at full noise. I've been running it at about 75% throttle, but the thing will chug along at idle if for some reason you want it to. The overhang is minimal, you'd just as likely scrape the bolts down the right hand side as you would the starter housing. If you're keen I can measure it for you.

Ideally I would have liked the GX120 as it's a bit cheaper. However, it just looks too big on the 14", as do the Briggs offerings and I didn't want to lose my 5/8 steel clutch half. It may be vain, but enjoy a bit of "balance" to the look of the mower, especially if I'm the one who has to live with it. If the tank was a bit lower profile it would be perfect in my eyes...! It also would have robbed me of handle bar adjustment. Don't think that's a problem with the newer style, wider bars.

Kawasaki FJ100 was also getting a look, but the shaft height is different. Lots of motor though for ~$400 and the height problem can be overcome.

Good luck with your 17". I swear those old Briggs didn't help the twins longevity. Mine had an engine change at some point, (engine build is 1988) an 82232 was fitted when I got it. Nothing "wrong" with it but it's a thumper alright. Thankfully it was a solid. Hopefully you can get it back into service and doing what it does best. Keep us in the loop.